Jan. 20, 2022
Build a financial organization in 3 weeks. By Duy Vo at Productfy
Duy Vo, Founder and CEO at Productfy talks about being a sole founder and yet having great Co-Founders (in a way) who have helped him lead the company to the success instead of selling early on. He also explains how Productfy works and how it can transform any organization into a complex financial organization in a span of a few weeks.
Duy Vo's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/duybvo/
Productfy's site: https://www.productfy.io/
Course on fundraising for early stage startups: https://www.fundraising-courses.com/
Transcript
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They're releasing to fundraising
video a podcast about
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fundraising for early-stage
startups, the major rule that we
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follow here is no bullshit on
this podcast.
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No music to relax.
You know, advertisements of our
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sponsors.
We only talk about fundraising
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here and nothing else.
So let's jump into the episode
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and today's guest speaker, who
have you bow, founder and CEO at
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product five.
And in this episode, we'll talk
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about mold All things such as
reaching out to Abyssal random
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people on LinkedIn in order to
test out the idea for the
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company passing out on the
Acquisitions and so on and so
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forth.
And of course, we're going to
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talk about the fundraising so
you let's kick it off by you
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giving us some background on
yourself and on product fi.
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Yeah, thank you.
I'm happy Thursday.
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Thank you for having me.
So, you know, my background is
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started out as a developer and
Over the years, having been
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given the opportunity to run
product, engineering and
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operations.
Team you know a lot of its in
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regulated space mostly fintech
Health Tech super passionate
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about financial products and
services, really felt that
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Financial Services has both a
tremendous opportunity and huge
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moral obligation to do societal.
Good.
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And we as an industry have left
a lot of vulnerable people
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behind.
And so really passionate about,
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you know, wanting to address the
the issue at its core.
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And so started product fi in
2018 with the thesis that
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Financial Services is moving
towards the edge.
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That means more and more non
banks are going to be looking to
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offer Financial products and
services.
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And, you know, we've been
spending the last couple years
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building that our platform
technology programs.
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And you know, we're at a point
now, where I think that we're on
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the cusp of really proving out,
what it would take to build a
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decentralized financial.
Structure on Traditional Bank.
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So, building d54 Traditional
Bank if you will Rate.
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So the first time we met on our
printer recall, I was extremely
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confused by that explanation.
So let's go into a little bit
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deeper explanation and maybe go
over an example of how to use
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project fi just so that all of
our relations are on the same
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page and they will all
understand how cool the product
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is.
So you can give us an example of
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how to use product fight or just
one use case of it.
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Yes, sir, we'll be happy to do
so.
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So if you think about, you know,
Where where Financial Services
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can really add value, you think
about someone like my mom, you
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know, she she goes to church
several times a week or at least
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she did before Colbert and for
her she has a deep deep
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relationship with the church.
So what if that church could
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create a credit union like
experience for her right?
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Being able to offer a debit card
secure credit card and
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fdic-insured account where she
can deposit money.
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What if that church have the
ability to turn around and And
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and lend money short-term.
So that their congregation don't
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have to take our short day, paid
a short-term payday loans.
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And then what if the church is
able to do basic services, like,
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being able to do, check cashing?
And so being able to enable that
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type of organization to offer
Financial product and Service as
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a credit union like experience,
you think about a university
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being able to offer secure
credit card to its students so
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that they can help them build
credit and help.
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Them rein in spending, you think
about, you know, a gaming
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studio, being able to issue a
card to its user, so they can
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leverage that that relationship
and turn around and give points
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that can be used towards digital
assets.
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You think about programs that,
that, that really serves
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retailers through private label
cards.
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So, it's really this opportunity
of seeing Financial products and
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services, not as a standalone
offering.
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But it's about banking Financial
Services.
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It's a way to help build a
better user experience and it's
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embedding Financial products and
services into an operational
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workflow or an offering like
Lyft being able to pay their
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drivers with a debit card like
creating a debit card that can
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hold your key lock funds.
When you refinance, it's to be
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able to create a credit union,
like experience at a CBO, a
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community organization,
religious organization.
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This is what we think could be
really amazing, love it there
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day behind it is absolutely
wonderful.
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The moment, I realized what
exactly prompted fight does on
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our printer called?
I was like, all right, this guy
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definitely goes on the podcast
as soon as possible.
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So yeah, now that we covered
that now that everyone
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understands what exactly prodded
Phi is How cool it is.
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Let's go and discuss the major
subject over the entire podcast
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which is fundraising.
And let's start with the fact
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that I believe you are the sole
founder of product fire.
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Is that right?
Yes, sir.
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So Founders that is I'm not
going to say it's very rare but
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it is quite rare for soul
Founders to raise so much money
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because produc fight I believe
up to this point raised
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overreaching and dollars and
that is not as common as one
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might think.
So from your perspective, If you
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know being a sole founder, do
you think it is okay to run a
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company by yourself or do you
wish you had a co-founder?
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You know, I always wished to
work with amazing people and so,
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you know, for me.
Yes, I am technically the
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co-founder.
But, you know, I, you know, my
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very first hire someone that I,
you know, Grew From like a
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junior engineer all the way to
someone who ran UI engineering
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at my previous company, right?
So I, you know, I was able to
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bring him On like, you know,
early on and he's been with me
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for like the last you know I've
known him longer than I've known
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my wife, my wife was there.
Every step of the way you know,
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she, you know, she did our
payroll, she did our billing,
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she did, stay filings taxes, all
of those things.
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I had investors who I could call
on a Saturday and they'll spend
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30 minutes, you know, explaining
things to me, you know, Thomson
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the best angel investor And
possibly get for a fintech, you
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know, e spends countless hours
with me on the phone and so,
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yes, I am technically, you know,
the only founder but in no way
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was I ever alone in this journey
and I could never have made it
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without the support structures.
That all these really
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Extraordinary People brought to
bear with me.
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All right, person will love the
sound of that.
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So let's talk about how you
managed to find those amazing
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investors on our print recall.
You mentioned that you, when you
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got the idea for a product for
you, literally reached out to
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completely run some people on
LinkedIn and some of those
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eventually became your
investors.
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Can you tell us a little more
about that process?
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Why do you decide to just go
with random people instead of
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trying to Target some particular
type of LinkedIn users, yes,
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sir.
So you know I basically look for
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enterpreneurs.
Yes, you know, like people who
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have done it and I just reach
out to them and I was like, hey
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I have this idea.
I don't know how to do this.
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And what I've learned you know,
early on in life is is that
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people are generally very kind
to you if you give them, you
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know, not everybody, obviously,
but most people are claiming to
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be given the chance to be right.
You know, I was homeless in high
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school until I found, you know,
my best friend's parents decided
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to take me in, right?
They help make sure that I go to
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Let's write every step of the
way I had people who just showed
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me kindness in a way that I was
I didn't deserve.
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And so that carry with me.
It's you know, I had an idea, I
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thought was compelling, I reach
out a bunch of random people
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and, you know, a bunch of them
got back to me and out of that,
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a subset of them became really
involved and and and you know a
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smaller subset became investors
but but really it's just about
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we just about realizing that,
you know, more Often than not,
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you're going to run into kind
people and just put it out there
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that you need help and and and
you know, you'll generally get
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back, pretty decent reception
100% that is guaranteed the
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street especially in disturb
industry.
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If your story now it's if you're
the founder or if you're one of
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the co-founders you reach out to
random people until I'm curious.
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What I'm doing, I need help with
XYZ people will legitimately
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help just because they want to
help out someone who's starting
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out.
So yeah, definitely go for it.
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So let's go and actually talk
about the militia my voice and
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you need water.
No I'm good.
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I have we're right here, I'm
fully hydrated.
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Do you know where about that?
So let's talk about the
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acquisition, part of it, on our
printed call, you mentioned
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something that really caught my
eye there, which is the fact
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that you actually had quite a
few Acquisitions.
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Down the road or earlier in this
year's.
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Can you tell us a little bit
more about those?
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How did Those come up.
Where did they come from?
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Or who offered you?
That was Asians.
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Yeah.
So I mean I'll talk about two
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that I think are the most
poignant because they just
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illustrate like what you really
need on this journey.
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The first is, you know, we met
with this company where you
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know, the CEO was with someone
who you know had a very very
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well-known brand and and didn't
come from fintech but had a
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well-known brand could raise a
ton of money and and you know
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that that you know he'd already
raised And he basically said,
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hey, like let's team up and I
said, yeah, like, you know,
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would love to write.
I don't, you know, I don't mind,
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like, teaming up and working
together, I believe, you know,
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in collaboration, but, you know,
somewhere along the line, it
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became kind of clear to me that
that conversation wasn't going
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well, because he doesn't really
understand the fintech space.
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And certainly doesn't feel as
deeply about it.
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As I do, there isn't this
Mission driven part of it but
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you know, they've got person
said something to me that, you
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know, kind And of made me
rethink things.
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It's like look you you don't
understand you're not the
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caliber, I am.
I can get meetings and have
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conversations that you can never
have.
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And at that point, you know, we
didn't have a lot of money.
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This is before we read, this is
our up to this point that we've
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raised a hundred and eighty
thousand dollars total and so
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and so, on the way home, I
called up Thomson, the angel
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invested I mentioned earlier I
called up Ben who's who's our
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First Institutional Investor out
of 500 and I called up my wife,
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you know, David and bow who were
Me and unanimously.
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They all told me, no.
Like, I was ready to sell out.
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I'm like look like, you know,
that guy's right much higher
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caliber than me.
You know, you know can raise
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money from a VC.
I simply don't know how to do
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that, but unanimously outside.
No, don't do it.
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Like, like you have a vision?
You know, let's let's see this
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Vision through and then the
second one was, you know, what
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was from in organization that we
have you know, relationship with
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And, you know, they, you know,
they were looking at an
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acquisition, at a valuation that
is like very, very low.
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But at the time, I didn't know
it was very low.
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Like, it was, you know, like
three million dollars was far
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more than I've ever seen in my
entire life.
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So it was, you know?
And so it was like, it was like
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a like the acquisition of a
company for 3 million.
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Seems like a slam dunk for me
and you know, we were thinking
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like yeah, I don't know how to
fundraise.
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So why don't we just do this?
And luckily you know, they took
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a while to get the paperwork
together and by the time that
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that happened, we'd already had
a venture firm reach out to us
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and had made us an offer to lead
our seed round.
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So you know, with the first time
it was the courage that I found
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in my network to say no and with
the second one it was just you
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know the other person took too
long.
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The other organization took too
long and we got a better
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investment offer and we went
with it.
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A lovely story of how
bureaucracy saved the company.
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Basically they're interesting.
And yeah, it can be useful.
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Apparently never, if would think
that's the case, but yeah, let's
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let's talk about the fact that
you had no idea how to
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fundraise.
He really didn't know, we know
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where to go next, but you still
managed to raise over eighty
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million dollars?
So let's talk about that
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Journey.
Um, and let's start with a very
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first round.
I think you mentioned that
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initially, you raced just about
80 Hundreds a thousand dollars
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and you were leaving for over
two years on those two hundred,
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eighty thousand dollars.
Do you think that was a good
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choice?
Do you think it was a nice
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strategy of bootstrapping /?
Slight influx of cash or do you
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wish you had couple more
millions in your bank account at
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the time?
Yeah so um you know we actually
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you're right you know you're
absolutely right that we did
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raise 280,000 over you know two
year period but we actually
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raised a hundred and eighty
thousand dollars for about a
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year and a half and then we race
the extra hundred thousand.
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You like the second like the
second half of the second year.
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So for a year and a half we have
survived on 180 thousand dollars
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that was our initial raised.
You know I'm not good at counter
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factual's but what I can say
that do that was a reality.
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We lived at do you wish we had
more money?
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Absolutely.
Yes I mean you know I just gave
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him my wife and I had just had a
baby daughter and I was leaving
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a decent job running engineering
for a tech company to do theirs.
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So yes sir, I definitely wish we
had money.
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Um, is it a good strategy?
I have no idea, but that was the
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reality before in.
And and the thing that got me
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through it was one of the best
advice I ever got from from
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starting a company and arguably
the best advice I've ever gotten
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and again, no, surprise that
came from Thompson, most
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startups, die by Suicide, not by
homicide.
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And so it was like all right
like as long as we can live to
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fight another day, we're going
to do it and it forced us to be
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so incredibly focused.
August it forced us to have to
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work crazy hours.
It forces us to just appreciate
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every single hour of the day and
and I don't know if that would
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have been the case.
Had we been flushed with a lot
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of capital because we've seen
companies in our space, raised a
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ton of money and not really make
any progress.
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But, you know, it made it easy
or, I guess, when we did our
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series, our seed round, because
people are like, oh, wow,
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Already have all this stuff
building.
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You already have a client and in
our series, a comes around.
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It's like, oh, okay.
You already have all this stuff
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bill.
So, you know, like we have time
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to figure out a lot of issues
and so, yeah, I mean I don't
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know if it's the right thing to
do but those were the benefits
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of not having a lot of money.
Absolutely.
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There are definitely huge
amazing perks of not having too
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much money or not too much
pressure from your investors and
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I love this quote.
Most starve die from Suicide or
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00:15:22,300 --> 00:15:26,200
by Suicide not by homicide love
it and definitely going on my
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Twitter which I haven't touched
in ages so good work props to
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your investor there.
So the majority of the listeners
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of these podcasts or Founders
who have never raised money
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before or who have raised, maybe
appreciate ground from friends
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and family, what would be your
advice to those people?
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What is your major learning from
your own experience there that
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00:15:48,300 --> 00:15:53,200
you would like them to know of
Um, like really stop and ask
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yourself why why you're starting
a company.
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Because if you have a mission
look, if you think that you're
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starting a money because there's
some big payday down the line
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that you're optimizing for,
maybe that's what will keep you
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going but I don't know if it
would have for me.
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So like for me having that
mission having this like life
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purpose doing something you feel
you know gives you a sense of
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00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:22,100
comfort.
That is what's going to get you
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00:16:22,100 --> 00:16:24,900
through, because that's what's
going to force you, to not like
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00:16:24,900 --> 00:16:27,400
give up, right?
Because when the investors
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00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:31,800
laugh, you out of the room, When
they don't think your idea makes
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00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:36,900
sense, when none of it works,
like like the only thing that's
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00:16:36,900 --> 00:16:40,300
going to get you going, is that
do you and your network quite
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00:16:40,300 --> 00:16:43,000
honestly?
Believe that there's something
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here and you just keep building
and building.
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And you have to believe that
someday someone outside of you
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and those closest to you are
going to see value in it.
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00:16:55,300 --> 00:16:58,200
And like I said, if you're just
optimizing for like a Payday
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00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:00,000
someday, that is going to be a
whore.
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Hard that you're not going to
make it through the night if you
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00:17:02,500 --> 00:17:07,700
do it that way.
So so so have a greater purpose
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00:17:08,099 --> 00:17:12,900
and that greater purpose will
give you the the tenacity to
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00:17:12,900 --> 00:17:17,700
pull through, and the ability to
do what, what, what will your
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00:17:17,700 --> 00:17:22,700
job is, to help investors see
what they don't see.
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00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:27,800
Mmm, and if you yourself don't
see it, the investors aren't.
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00:17:28,500 --> 00:17:32,100
And so have purpose.
I think that's going to go a
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00:17:32,108 --> 00:17:34,900
long way.
Yep, that is definitely come
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00:17:34,900 --> 00:17:37,000
advice.
What people if you're starting a
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company?
Just because you think that's
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00:17:39,300 --> 00:17:42,600
interesting and that's a way to
make money that has worked in
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00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:45,000
the past as well.
I have interviewed quite a few
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00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:46,600
Founders who had curried
Acquisitions.
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00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:49,300
Who started companies
legitimately because they knew
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00:17:49,300 --> 00:17:53,000
that you know this company or
this sort of company is going to
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00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:54,800
do.
Well there is a financial
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00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:57,200
viability of their investors are
going to love it so let's just
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00:17:57,200 --> 00:17:59,200
do it.
There is no No career, good
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00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:03,400
behind it but is just going to
make money and it did work out
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00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,900
for them quite well.
So if that's the case, it just
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00:18:06,900 --> 00:18:12,400
might work out on this note.
Let's go back a little bit
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00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:14,000
because I forgot to ask you the
question.
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00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:17,400
I actually wanted to ask you
very much, which is paying
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00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:20,900
yourself salaries and you've
mentioned that, you know, you
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00:18:20,900 --> 00:18:25,900
had a baby and you wish you had
more money in the bank account.
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00:18:25,900 --> 00:18:28,000
And on this note, let's talk
about pain.
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00:18:28,100 --> 00:18:30,900
Yourself, a salary as a Founder.
At what point did you start
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00:18:30,900 --> 00:18:34,500
paying yourself?
And how much was it after we
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00:18:34,500 --> 00:18:37,600
sign our first client?
And it was four thousand dollars
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00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:42,000
as a contractor per month.
So like, not like, Which is less
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00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:45,300
than, what you would make, if it
was like salary for 4K.
329
00:18:45,900 --> 00:18:49,100
So it's four thousand dollars as
a contractor per month.
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00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:52,900
Nice and how did investors react
to that?
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00:18:53,100 --> 00:18:56,600
Did you slowly?
That's that's the reason why I'm
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00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:58,800
asking too many questions when
that work when I'm drilling down
333
00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:01,500
and that is because a lot of
Founders get confused about
334
00:19:01,500 --> 00:19:03,600
paying themselves.
Some of them pay themselves way
335
00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:05,400
too much.
Some of them just try to starve
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00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:08,300
themselves to death.
So what do you think?
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00:19:08,300 --> 00:19:12,600
Is the Silver Line there?
Where how much should a Founder
338
00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:16,200
pay themselves?
If they're leaving off purely
339
00:19:16,500 --> 00:19:19,600
Capital that they just raised
and let's say it's Series.
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00:19:19,700 --> 00:19:22,000
Actually, let's say it's a seed
round.
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00:19:22,300 --> 00:19:26,800
All right.
So um, you know, for me, I think
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00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:30,200
the question is like, at the
stage we were at.
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00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:33,500
It didn't really matter because
it was like, well, we ran out of
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00:19:33,500 --> 00:19:34,600
money.
We're going to keep working.
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00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:40,000
Anyways, it was more like this
ritual of like every month
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00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:44,500
seeing money disappear from the
company account that forces you
347
00:19:44,500 --> 00:19:46,000
to refocus, right?
It's not.
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00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:50,900
It's that like they're there is
a, there is A very very
349
00:19:53,100 --> 00:19:56,100
clarifying effect to know that
every month you are.
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00:19:56,100 --> 00:19:58,700
Losing this percentage of a
chance to fight now.
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00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:00,800
And we didn't have money.
Will we keep going?
352
00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:05,000
Yes, but just seeing that
disappearing every single month
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00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:08,100
and then seeing, you know, less
of it disappearing because
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00:20:08,100 --> 00:20:10,500
you're getting some Revenue
right?
355
00:20:10,500 --> 00:20:16,200
Like that, that is the mental
games that you play to give
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00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:21,100
yourself you know the
wherewithal to Continue all of
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00:20:21,100 --> 00:20:23,700
it on this extremely, extremely
optimistic.
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00:20:23,700 --> 00:20:26,500
Note, let's move on to the very
last question of today's
359
00:20:26,500 --> 00:20:28,500
episode, which is a call to
action.
360
00:20:28,500 --> 00:20:31,900
So you would do you want to
listen to do?
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00:20:31,900 --> 00:20:36,000
As soon as the episode is over?
Yeah, you know, I got to where I
362
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:38,900
am because there's a lot of
kindness out there.
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00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:44,000
You know, for me, you know, if I
can be helpful, if I can pay it
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00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:47,300
forward, like, you know, I kind
of owe it to the to the broader
365
00:20:47,300 --> 00:20:50,900
Universe, if you will You know
each out like connect with me on
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00:20:50,900 --> 00:20:53,300
LinkedIn but when you do, you
know please actually tell me why
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00:20:53,300 --> 00:20:54,900
you're connecting on LinkedIn,
right?
368
00:20:54,900 --> 00:20:57,700
Like if I just think you're like
a random you know person who's
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00:20:57,700 --> 00:21:00,700
just trying to make a sale then
I'm probably not going to
370
00:21:00,700 --> 00:21:02,900
connect to you.
But you know, if you're like,
371
00:21:02,900 --> 00:21:05,000
hey like this is what I would
like some help with.
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00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:06,600
Like, I'd like to pay it
forward.
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00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:10,200
And of course, if you're part of
a company that needs any type of
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00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:13,200
the ability to offer Financial
products from like card issuance
375
00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:16,000
to deposit accounts, two wires
the money transfers or whatever.
376
00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:19,000
Kyc, of course, come check out
product side.
377
00:21:19,300 --> 00:21:24,300
Ayo and you know, that's product
find out IO and I would just
378
00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:27,700
Absolutely love to chat with
you.
379
00:21:28,500 --> 00:21:31,700
Love it.
Love this cultivation and love
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00:21:31,700 --> 00:21:35,800
the whole pay for the idea of
the startup World.
381
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:38,300
It definitely works.
And people are definitely very
382
00:21:38,300 --> 00:21:41,000
nice to each other because most
of them got where they are
383
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:44,000
because someone else help them.
So, yeah, on this extremely
384
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:45,600
optimistic note, we'll wrap it
up.
385
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:48,300
My call to action is as usually
check out the description of
386
00:21:48,300 --> 00:21:50,800
this episode, I'll include a
bunch of links in there.
387
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:53,300
Specifically Linked In off.
You it.
388
00:21:53,300 --> 00:21:55,200
There is also going to link to
product Fayed.
389
00:21:55,300 --> 00:21:59,300
And there's also going to be a
self plug there for our newly
390
00:21:59,300 --> 00:22:02,400
developed course of fundraising.
So, if you're curious how to
391
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:05,400
reach out to investors, what
kind of tools to use, definitely
392
00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:06,800
check it out.
All of that.
393
00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:09,500
Good stuff is going to be in the
description of this episode.
394
00:22:09,500 --> 00:22:11,300
And as usually have a good day,
00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:07,800
They're releasing to fundraising
video a podcast about
2
00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:11,400
fundraising for early-stage
startups, the major rule that we
3
00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:14,600
follow here is no bullshit on
this podcast.
4
00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:17,100
No music to relax.
You know, advertisements of our
5
00:00:17,100 --> 00:00:19,600
sponsors.
We only talk about fundraising
6
00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:23,000
here and nothing else.
So let's jump into the episode
7
00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:27,400
and today's guest speaker, who
have you bow, founder and CEO at
8
00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:29,300
product five.
And in this episode, we'll talk
9
00:00:29,300 --> 00:00:33,300
about mold All things such as
reaching out to Abyssal random
10
00:00:33,300 --> 00:00:36,500
people on LinkedIn in order to
test out the idea for the
11
00:00:36,500 --> 00:00:41,500
company passing out on the
Acquisitions and so on and so
12
00:00:41,500 --> 00:00:42,500
forth.
And of course, we're going to
13
00:00:42,500 --> 00:00:46,600
talk about the fundraising so
you let's kick it off by you
14
00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:49,500
giving us some background on
yourself and on product fi.
15
00:00:50,500 --> 00:00:52,600
Yeah, thank you.
I'm happy Thursday.
16
00:00:52,900 --> 00:00:56,600
Thank you for having me.
So, you know, my background is
17
00:00:56,900 --> 00:01:01,000
started out as a developer and
Over the years, having been
18
00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:04,599
given the opportunity to run
product, engineering and
19
00:01:04,599 --> 00:01:07,900
operations.
Team you know a lot of its in
20
00:01:07,900 --> 00:01:12,200
regulated space mostly fintech
Health Tech super passionate
21
00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:16,200
about financial products and
services, really felt that
22
00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:19,600
Financial Services has both a
tremendous opportunity and huge
23
00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:21,400
moral obligation to do societal.
Good.
24
00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:25,800
And we as an industry have left
a lot of vulnerable people
25
00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:27,700
behind.
And so really passionate about,
26
00:01:27,700 --> 00:01:31,200
you know, wanting to address the
the issue at its core.
27
00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:36,600
And so started product fi in
2018 with the thesis that
28
00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:39,000
Financial Services is moving
towards the edge.
29
00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:43,600
That means more and more non
banks are going to be looking to
30
00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:45,300
offer Financial products and
services.
31
00:01:45,900 --> 00:01:48,900
And, you know, we've been
spending the last couple years
32
00:01:48,900 --> 00:01:51,600
building that our platform
technology programs.
33
00:01:52,100 --> 00:01:55,600
And you know, we're at a point
now, where I think that we're on
34
00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:58,300
the cusp of really proving out,
what it would take to build a
35
00:01:58,300 --> 00:02:02,000
decentralized financial.
Structure on Traditional Bank.
36
00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:06,800
So, building d54 Traditional
Bank if you will Rate.
37
00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:09,800
So the first time we met on our
printer recall, I was extremely
38
00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:13,100
confused by that explanation.
So let's go into a little bit
39
00:02:13,100 --> 00:02:17,100
deeper explanation and maybe go
over an example of how to use
40
00:02:17,300 --> 00:02:20,400
project fi just so that all of
our relations are on the same
41
00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:22,900
page and they will all
understand how cool the product
42
00:02:22,900 --> 00:02:25,200
is.
So you can give us an example of
43
00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:28,500
how to use product fight or just
one use case of it.
44
00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:31,300
Yes, sir, we'll be happy to do
so.
45
00:02:31,300 --> 00:02:36,500
So if you think about, you know,
Where where Financial Services
46
00:02:36,500 --> 00:02:40,300
can really add value, you think
about someone like my mom, you
47
00:02:40,300 --> 00:02:43,000
know, she she goes to church
several times a week or at least
48
00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:48,000
she did before Colbert and for
her she has a deep deep
49
00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:51,800
relationship with the church.
So what if that church could
50
00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:54,800
create a credit union like
experience for her right?
51
00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:57,900
Being able to offer a debit card
secure credit card and
52
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fdic-insured account where she
can deposit money.
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What if that church have the
ability to turn around and And
54
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and lend money short-term.
So that their congregation don't
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have to take our short day, paid
a short-term payday loans.
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And then what if the church is
able to do basic services, like,
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being able to do, check cashing?
And so being able to enable that
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type of organization to offer
Financial product and Service as
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a credit union like experience,
you think about a university
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being able to offer secure
credit card to its students so
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that they can help them build
credit and help.
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Them rein in spending, you think
about, you know, a gaming
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studio, being able to issue a
card to its user, so they can
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leverage that that relationship
and turn around and give points
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that can be used towards digital
assets.
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You think about programs that,
that, that really serves
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retailers through private label
cards.
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So, it's really this opportunity
of seeing Financial products and
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services, not as a standalone
offering.
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But it's about banking Financial
Services.
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It's a way to help build a
better user experience and it's
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embedding Financial products and
services into an operational
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workflow or an offering like
Lyft being able to pay their
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drivers with a debit card like
creating a debit card that can
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hold your key lock funds.
When you refinance, it's to be
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able to create a credit union,
like experience at a CBO, a
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community organization,
religious organization.
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This is what we think could be
really amazing, love it there
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day behind it is absolutely
wonderful.
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The moment, I realized what
exactly prompted fight does on
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00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:50,900
our printer called?
I was like, all right, this guy
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definitely goes on the podcast
as soon as possible.
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So yeah, now that we covered
that now that everyone
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understands what exactly prodded
Phi is How cool it is.
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Let's go and discuss the major
subject over the entire podcast
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which is fundraising.
And let's start with the fact
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that I believe you are the sole
founder of product fire.
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Is that right?
Yes, sir.
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So Founders that is I'm not
going to say it's very rare but
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00:05:17,300 --> 00:05:20,300
it is quite rare for soul
Founders to raise so much money
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because produc fight I believe
up to this point raised
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overreaching and dollars and
that is not as common as one
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might think.
So from your perspective, If you
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know being a sole founder, do
you think it is okay to run a
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company by yourself or do you
wish you had a co-founder?
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You know, I always wished to
work with amazing people and so,
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you know, for me.
Yes, I am technically the
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co-founder.
But, you know, I, you know, my
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00:05:48,500 --> 00:05:52,500
very first hire someone that I,
you know, Grew From like a
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junior engineer all the way to
someone who ran UI engineering
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at my previous company, right?
So I, you know, I was able to
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bring him On like, you know,
early on and he's been with me
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for like the last you know I've
known him longer than I've known
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my wife, my wife was there.
Every step of the way you know,
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she, you know, she did our
payroll, she did our billing,
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she did, stay filings taxes, all
of those things.
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I had investors who I could call
on a Saturday and they'll spend
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30 minutes, you know, explaining
things to me, you know, Thomson
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the best angel investor And
possibly get for a fintech, you
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know, e spends countless hours
with me on the phone and so,
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yes, I am technically, you know,
the only founder but in no way
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was I ever alone in this journey
and I could never have made it
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without the support structures.
That all these really
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Extraordinary People brought to
bear with me.
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All right, person will love the
sound of that.
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So let's talk about how you
managed to find those amazing
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investors on our print recall.
You mentioned that you, when you
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got the idea for a product for
you, literally reached out to
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completely run some people on
LinkedIn and some of those
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eventually became your
investors.
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Can you tell us a little more
about that process?
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Why do you decide to just go
with random people instead of
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00:07:12,500 --> 00:07:16,800
trying to Target some particular
type of LinkedIn users, yes,
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sir.
So you know I basically look for
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enterpreneurs.
Yes, you know, like people who
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have done it and I just reach
out to them and I was like, hey
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I have this idea.
I don't know how to do this.
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And what I've learned you know,
early on in life is is that
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people are generally very kind
to you if you give them, you
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know, not everybody, obviously,
but most people are claiming to
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be given the chance to be right.
You know, I was homeless in high
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school until I found, you know,
my best friend's parents decided
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to take me in, right?
They help make sure that I go to
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Let's write every step of the
way I had people who just showed
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me kindness in a way that I was
I didn't deserve.
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And so that carry with me.
It's you know, I had an idea, I
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thought was compelling, I reach
out a bunch of random people
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and, you know, a bunch of them
got back to me and out of that,
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a subset of them became really
involved and and and you know a
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smaller subset became investors
but but really it's just about
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we just about realizing that,
you know, more Often than not,
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you're going to run into kind
people and just put it out there
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that you need help and and and
you know, you'll generally get
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back, pretty decent reception
100% that is guaranteed the
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street especially in disturb
industry.
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If your story now it's if you're
the founder or if you're one of
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the co-founders you reach out to
random people until I'm curious.
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What I'm doing, I need help with
XYZ people will legitimately
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help just because they want to
help out someone who's starting
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out.
So yeah, definitely go for it.
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So let's go and actually talk
about the militia my voice and
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you need water.
No I'm good.
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00:08:58,900 --> 00:09:01,600
I have we're right here, I'm
fully hydrated.
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00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:04,400
Do you know where about that?
So let's talk about the
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acquisition, part of it, on our
printed call, you mentioned
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something that really caught my
eye there, which is the fact
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that you actually had quite a
few Acquisitions.
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Down the road or earlier in this
year's.
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Can you tell us a little bit
more about those?
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How did Those come up.
Where did they come from?
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Or who offered you?
That was Asians.
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Yeah.
So I mean I'll talk about two
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that I think are the most
poignant because they just
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illustrate like what you really
need on this journey.
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The first is, you know, we met
with this company where you
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know, the CEO was with someone
who you know had a very very
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well-known brand and and didn't
come from fintech but had a
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well-known brand could raise a
ton of money and and you know
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that that you know he'd already
raised And he basically said,
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hey, like let's team up and I
said, yeah, like, you know,
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would love to write.
I don't, you know, I don't mind,
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like, teaming up and working
together, I believe, you know,
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in collaboration, but, you know,
somewhere along the line, it
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became kind of clear to me that
that conversation wasn't going
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well, because he doesn't really
understand the fintech space.
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And certainly doesn't feel as
deeply about it.
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As I do, there isn't this
Mission driven part of it but
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you know, they've got person
said something to me that, you
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know, kind And of made me
rethink things.
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It's like look you you don't
understand you're not the
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caliber, I am.
I can get meetings and have
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conversations that you can never
have.
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And at that point, you know, we
didn't have a lot of money.
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This is before we read, this is
our up to this point that we've
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raised a hundred and eighty
thousand dollars total and so
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and so, on the way home, I
called up Thomson, the angel
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invested I mentioned earlier I
called up Ben who's who's our
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First Institutional Investor out
of 500 and I called up my wife,
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you know, David and bow who were
Me and unanimously.
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They all told me, no.
Like, I was ready to sell out.
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I'm like look like, you know,
that guy's right much higher
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caliber than me.
You know, you know can raise
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money from a VC.
I simply don't know how to do
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that, but unanimously outside.
No, don't do it.
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Like, like you have a vision?
You know, let's let's see this
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Vision through and then the
second one was, you know, what
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was from in organization that we
have you know, relationship with
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And, you know, they, you know,
they were looking at an
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acquisition, at a valuation that
is like very, very low.
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But at the time, I didn't know
it was very low.
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Like, it was, you know, like
three million dollars was far
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more than I've ever seen in my
entire life.
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So it was, you know?
And so it was like, it was like
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a like the acquisition of a
company for 3 million.
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00:11:43,100 --> 00:11:48,200
Seems like a slam dunk for me
and you know, we were thinking
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like yeah, I don't know how to
fundraise.
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00:11:50,100 --> 00:11:54,200
So why don't we just do this?
And luckily you know, they took
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a while to get the paperwork
together and by the time that
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that happened, we'd already had
a venture firm reach out to us
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and had made us an offer to lead
our seed round.
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So you know, with the first time
it was the courage that I found
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in my network to say no and with
the second one it was just you
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know the other person took too
long.
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The other organization took too
long and we got a better
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00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:19,900
investment offer and we went
with it.
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00:12:22,100 --> 00:12:25,200
A lovely story of how
bureaucracy saved the company.
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Basically they're interesting.
And yeah, it can be useful.
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Apparently never, if would think
that's the case, but yeah, let's
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let's talk about the fact that
you had no idea how to
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00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:39,800
fundraise.
He really didn't know, we know
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00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:43,200
where to go next, but you still
managed to raise over eighty
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00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:45,300
million dollars?
So let's talk about that
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Journey.
Um, and let's start with a very
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first round.
I think you mentioned that
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initially, you raced just about
80 Hundreds a thousand dollars
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and you were leaving for over
two years on those two hundred,
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eighty thousand dollars.
Do you think that was a good
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choice?
Do you think it was a nice
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00:13:01,500 --> 00:13:06,000
strategy of bootstrapping /?
Slight influx of cash or do you
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00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:08,400
wish you had couple more
millions in your bank account at
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00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:11,700
the time?
Yeah so um you know we actually
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you're right you know you're
absolutely right that we did
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00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:16,700
raise 280,000 over you know two
year period but we actually
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raised a hundred and eighty
thousand dollars for about a
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00:13:19,108 --> 00:13:21,500
year and a half and then we race
the extra hundred thousand.
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00:13:21,900 --> 00:13:24,700
You like the second like the
second half of the second year.
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00:13:24,700 --> 00:13:28,100
So for a year and a half we have
survived on 180 thousand dollars
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00:13:28,100 --> 00:13:31,300
that was our initial raised.
You know I'm not good at counter
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00:13:31,300 --> 00:13:35,300
factual's but what I can say
that do that was a reality.
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We lived at do you wish we had
more money?
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00:13:37,300 --> 00:13:40,100
Absolutely.
Yes I mean you know I just gave
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him my wife and I had just had a
baby daughter and I was leaving
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00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:48,300
a decent job running engineering
for a tech company to do theirs.
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So yes sir, I definitely wish we
had money.
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Um, is it a good strategy?
I have no idea, but that was the
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reality before in.
And and the thing that got me
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through it was one of the best
advice I ever got from from
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00:14:02,500 --> 00:14:05,500
starting a company and arguably
the best advice I've ever gotten
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00:14:05,700 --> 00:14:09,300
and again, no, surprise that
came from Thompson, most
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00:14:09,300 --> 00:14:12,300
startups, die by Suicide, not by
homicide.
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And so it was like all right
like as long as we can live to
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00:14:16,500 --> 00:14:20,400
fight another day, we're going
to do it and it forced us to be
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00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:23,600
so incredibly focused.
August it forced us to have to
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00:14:23,900 --> 00:14:27,800
work crazy hours.
It forces us to just appreciate
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every single hour of the day and
and I don't know if that would
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00:14:34,700 --> 00:14:37,400
have been the case.
Had we been flushed with a lot
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of capital because we've seen
companies in our space, raised a
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ton of money and not really make
any progress.
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00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:48,200
But, you know, it made it easy
or, I guess, when we did our
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series, our seed round, because
people are like, oh, wow,
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Already have all this stuff
building.
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You already have a client and in
our series, a comes around.
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00:14:55,900 --> 00:14:57,700
It's like, oh, okay.
You already have all this stuff
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bill.
So, you know, like we have time
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to figure out a lot of issues
and so, yeah, I mean I don't
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know if it's the right thing to
do but those were the benefits
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of not having a lot of money.
Absolutely.
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There are definitely huge
amazing perks of not having too
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much money or not too much
pressure from your investors and
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I love this quote.
Most starve die from Suicide or
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by Suicide not by homicide love
it and definitely going on my
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Twitter which I haven't touched
in ages so good work props to
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your investor there.
So the majority of the listeners
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of these podcasts or Founders
who have never raised money
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before or who have raised, maybe
appreciate ground from friends
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and family, what would be your
advice to those people?
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What is your major learning from
your own experience there that
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you would like them to know of
Um, like really stop and ask
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yourself why why you're starting
a company.
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Because if you have a mission
look, if you think that you're
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starting a money because there's
some big payday down the line
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that you're optimizing for,
maybe that's what will keep you
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going but I don't know if it
would have for me.
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So like for me having that
mission having this like life
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purpose doing something you feel
you know gives you a sense of
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comfort.
That is what's going to get you
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through, because that's what's
going to force you, to not like
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give up, right?
Because when the investors
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laugh, you out of the room, When
they don't think your idea makes
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sense, when none of it works,
like like the only thing that's
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going to get you going, is that
do you and your network quite
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honestly?
Believe that there's something
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here and you just keep building
and building.
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And you have to believe that
someday someone outside of you
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and those closest to you are
going to see value in it.
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And like I said, if you're just
optimizing for like a Payday
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someday, that is going to be a
whore.
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Hard that you're not going to
make it through the night if you
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do it that way.
So so so have a greater purpose
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and that greater purpose will
give you the the tenacity to
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pull through, and the ability to
do what, what, what will your
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job is, to help investors see
what they don't see.
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Mmm, and if you yourself don't
see it, the investors aren't.
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And so have purpose.
I think that's going to go a
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long way.
Yep, that is definitely come
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advice.
What people if you're starting a
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company?
Just because you think that's
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interesting and that's a way to
make money that has worked in
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the past as well.
I have interviewed quite a few
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Founders who had curried
Acquisitions.
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Who started companies
legitimately because they knew
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that you know this company or
this sort of company is going to
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do.
Well there is a financial
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viability of their investors are
going to love it so let's just
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do it.
There is no No career, good
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behind it but is just going to
make money and it did work out
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for them quite well.
So if that's the case, it just
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might work out on this note.
Let's go back a little bit
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because I forgot to ask you the
question.
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I actually wanted to ask you
very much, which is paying
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yourself salaries and you've
mentioned that, you know, you
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had a baby and you wish you had
more money in the bank account.
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And on this note, let's talk
about pain.
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Yourself, a salary as a Founder.
At what point did you start
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paying yourself?
And how much was it after we
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sign our first client?
And it was four thousand dollars
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as a contractor per month.
So like, not like, Which is less
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than, what you would make, if it
was like salary for 4K.
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So it's four thousand dollars as
a contractor per month.
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Nice and how did investors react
to that?
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Did you slowly?
That's that's the reason why I'm
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asking too many questions when
that work when I'm drilling down
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and that is because a lot of
Founders get confused about
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paying themselves.
Some of them pay themselves way
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too much.
Some of them just try to starve
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themselves to death.
So what do you think?
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Is the Silver Line there?
Where how much should a Founder
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pay themselves?
If they're leaving off purely
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Capital that they just raised
and let's say it's Series.
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Actually, let's say it's a seed
round.
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All right.
So um, you know, for me, I think
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the question is like, at the
stage we were at.
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It didn't really matter because
it was like, well, we ran out of
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money.
We're going to keep working.
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Anyways, it was more like this
ritual of like every month
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seeing money disappear from the
company account that forces you
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to refocus, right?
It's not.
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It's that like they're there is
a, there is A very very
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clarifying effect to know that
every month you are.
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Losing this percentage of a
chance to fight now.
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And we didn't have money.
Will we keep going?
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Yes, but just seeing that
disappearing every single month
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and then seeing, you know, less
of it disappearing because
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you're getting some Revenue
right?
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Like that, that is the mental
games that you play to give
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yourself you know the
wherewithal to Continue all of
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it on this extremely, extremely
optimistic.
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Note, let's move on to the very
last question of today's
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episode, which is a call to
action.
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So you would do you want to
listen to do?
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00:20:31,900 --> 00:20:36,000
As soon as the episode is over?
Yeah, you know, I got to where I
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am because there's a lot of
kindness out there.
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You know, for me, you know, if I
can be helpful, if I can pay it
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forward, like, you know, I kind
of owe it to the to the broader
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Universe, if you will You know
each out like connect with me on
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00:20:50,900 --> 00:20:53,300
LinkedIn but when you do, you
know please actually tell me why
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00:20:53,300 --> 00:20:54,900
you're connecting on LinkedIn,
right?
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00:20:54,900 --> 00:20:57,700
Like if I just think you're like
a random you know person who's
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just trying to make a sale then
I'm probably not going to
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00:21:00,700 --> 00:21:02,900
connect to you.
But you know, if you're like,
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hey like this is what I would
like some help with.
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Like, I'd like to pay it
forward.
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And of course, if you're part of
a company that needs any type of
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the ability to offer Financial
products from like card issuance
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00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:16,000
to deposit accounts, two wires
the money transfers or whatever.
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00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:19,000
Kyc, of course, come check out
product side.
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00:21:19,300 --> 00:21:24,300
Ayo and you know, that's product
find out IO and I would just
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Absolutely love to chat with
you.
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Love it.
Love this cultivation and love
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the whole pay for the idea of
the startup World.
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It definitely works.
And people are definitely very
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nice to each other because most
of them got where they are
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because someone else help them.
So, yeah, on this extremely
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optimistic note, we'll wrap it
up.
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My call to action is as usually
check out the description of
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00:21:48,300 --> 00:21:50,800
this episode, I'll include a
bunch of links in there.
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00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:53,300
Specifically Linked In off.
You it.
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00:21:53,300 --> 00:21:55,200
There is also going to link to
product Fayed.
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00:21:55,300 --> 00:21:59,300
And there's also going to be a
self plug there for our newly
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00:21:59,300 --> 00:22:02,400
developed course of fundraising.
So, if you're curious how to
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00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:05,400
reach out to investors, what
kind of tools to use, definitely
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00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:06,800
check it out.
All of that.
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Good stuff is going to be in the
description of this episode.
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And as usually have a good day,
