You don't want luck-based marketing - Karl Hughes about proper content marketing.

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They're releasing to fundraising
video a podcast about

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fundraising for early-stage
startups, the major rule that we

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follow here is no bullshit on
this podcast.

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No music to relax, you know,
advertisements of our sponsors.

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We only talk about fundraising
here and nothing else.

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So let's jump into the episode.
And today is a guest speaker.

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We have Carl Hughes founder and
CEO of draft death, and in this

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episode Episode, we will talk
about content generation as a

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source of margin.
And I remember last time I

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mentioned that the previous
episode is about that.

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This is the actual episode about
content marketing.

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So if you want to exploit the
strategy, definitely check this

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out.
So Carla, let's kick it off by

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you giving us some background on
yourself and on draft death.

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Yeah, thanks for having me
Constantine.

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So I'm a former software
engineer and then most recently,

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my last Always like head of
engineering and then a CTO at

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startup companies here in
Chicago where I'm based.

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I went full time on draft Dev
last year, though, in a pretty,

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big career switch.
I kind of switched from being

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all technical writing code all
day too.

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Well, first writing full-time
doing content, marketing writing

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for tech companies.
And now working with a whole

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team, we have over 60 writers, I
believe, who are active in a

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given month.
We've got a team of editors and

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the team of account managers.
And so, It's a, it's a real

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little business and I'll just in
one year while being

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bootstrapped, so I know we'll
talk more about some funding

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things later.
But yeah, for Content marketing

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specifically, to kind of give
you a little bit more into like,

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what draft does and how we're
different.

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Most content marketing agencies
are kind of generally focused

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across a whole, maybe a whole
sector, like B2B or SAS or

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something like that, we are
super Niche.

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All we do is B2B content aimed
at software Developers.

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So if you're not in this field,
you may not even know that it

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exists.
But essentially, if there are a

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lot of companies out there,
they're trying to reach software

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developers with content
marketing and it's especially

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tricky because software
developers are they're smart.

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They're in a very Niche field
where they know all these

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different coding languages and
Frameworks and things that most

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marketing people just don't know
and wouldn't be able to write

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about.
So to give you a really tangible

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example, we work with companies
that build tools for software

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developers, like, say, Mitch web
hosting company and for them if

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they want to write an article
about how to use their web

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hosting tool to deploy some kind
of application out into the web

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and scale it up.
They really need a software

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developer to write that kind of
content and their developers are

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busy building.
The platform, their marketers

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are have no idea how to start on
that.

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And so what we do is we come in
and help bring the subject

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matter experts to them to write
content.

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So it's just highly technical
marketing content.

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Perfect, awesome.
And we'll get into the details

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of Colin Morgan.
Just A bit first, let's figure

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out who actually needs it, so
that people who are lies that

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might not need it.
We'll just switch on to the next

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episode.
So from your perspective,

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correction, we needs cons and
marketing because a lot of

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people try to pursue it because
they think it's free is really

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not free.
Have to dedicate my sources in

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the form of your time, in a form
of time of your employees and

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things like that.
So, who do you think actually

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should be like screw this?
This is going to be one of our

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main marking tools.
Yeah.

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So So I think it depends a lot
on the founder and the stage

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that the company is at.
So I'll kind of the way I've

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always thought about startups is
like in the early days when

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you're just trying to find
product-market fit, you really

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only need one one, maybe two
channels, that that actually

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work for you and for some
Founders that is content.

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If you're a Founder who loves
writing anyway, then you might

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naturally be drawn to doing
content marketing and just be

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kind of doing it, organically on
your own and that means like use

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that strength basically.
I think that Get the furthest in

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the early days when they use, do
things that they're strong in

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already.
So you kind of want to start

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their get if you are good at
content.

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Now, for your question of like,
who shouldn't do content, and

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who should, I think if you are
an early stage founder, and

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you've never written a blog post
before in your life and you

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don't have somebody on your team
full-time, who's going to handle

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marketing and promotion of this
content and planning, the

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content.
It's going to be very difficult

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for you to sort of like, find
Value and content marketing.

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So really early stage, Knees.
Don't have this naturally

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embedded in their culture and
DNA.

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Probably want to just hold off
until they get a little more

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mature and they've got the
resources to hire a full-time

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content manager or head of
marketing, that knows that world

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really.
Well.

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Now companies that are further
along, I would argue that almost

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everybody who's in B2B, but
probably be to see as well

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should be doing some forms of
content marketing.

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And the thing there is that
content marketing is a huge

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field and you could sort of,
like, lump it in with a lot of

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things that are not just writing
blog posts for.

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People posting videos on a
platform like YouTube or

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Tick-Tock, that's really a form
of content marketing, you're

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creating content with the intent
of it being marketing material.

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So it's a lot broader than, I
think than some people assume.

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Now, you know, that's the hard
question is, like, what is the

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form of content marketing?
We need to do not.

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You know, should we ever do it?
It's kind of, like, how do we

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narrow down where our strengths
are and where we want to focus?

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Nice and we'll definitely touch
on to tick tock because that's

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the field.
I want to go into but haven't

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figured it out yet.
So there will be a bunch of

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questions.
Just for my curiosity,

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hopefully, only seniors are
interested in that as well.

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So one more question on what
you've mentioned earlier, which

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is the fact that you have about
60 active players per month.

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Can you elaborate a little bit
on that?

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How big is your team?
Are those full-time?

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Are those contractors?
Do hire them for like specific

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jobs.
How about how big is your actual

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team?
A full-time team.

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Yeah.
So our full-time team is 5 and

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we're hiring to and actively
right now.

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So we'll be at 97 in the next
month.

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Yeah.
So that's our full-time core

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team that includes like account
managers marketing myself doing

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sales, a couple people doing
editing.

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And so that's kind of the core
and then from there we have a

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big pool of.
We have some freelance editors

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who work anywhere between 10 and
30 hours a week on their time

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and They have availability and
then we've got a lot of those

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people.
The bulk of those people are

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freelance developers, / writers
and the way it works with us

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because we're all of our clients
are trying to reach really a

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really technical audience.
All of our writers are subject,

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matter, experts, that means
they're all practicing software

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developers who just do this on
nights and weekends essentially.

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And so, they're kind of like,
they're more like gig workers,

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you know, closer to like, how an
Uber driver picks up a ride,

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these writers are kind of
Picking up articles every week

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depending on their availability
and how much they want to take

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on and what they know.
So we kind of send out a list of

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topics that might be good for
them and then they everybody in

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our writing pool, they kind of
respond as they want and as they

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have time, nice.
That is an awesome structure.

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So let's talk about the
mistakes.

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That Founders, make that decide
to choose content marketing, as

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their marketing strategy.
Are there any major fails epic

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fail specifically that you have
seen in the field?

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Yeah, I think there's a few
things that I've seen.

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The first one is like, not being
strategic with content.

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So in other words, a lot of
times I'll talk to Founders who

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are really early on and they
say, like, you know, we've heard

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that content can work really
well.

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We see it working at these big
companies like digital ocean,

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and OCTA, and Amazon and they're
saying, you know, we want to be

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like them someday and so we
should start writing and that's

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that's fair.
But to be honest you've got to

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think about a lot more than Just
writing for the sake of writing

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early on.
So, who's the audience for this

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content?
And do you have that really

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narrowed down?
Are you trying to aim at the

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actual developers writing code
or you aiming at their bosses,

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who are deciding which tools to
use?

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Or are you aiming at C Level
Executives, who want a totally

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different kind of content and
you have to think about the

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kinds of content, those people
are consuming and what frame of

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mind they're in when they're
consuming it.

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So, you mentioned Tick-Tock and
I like I think this is a great

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example.
Like for b2c companies, things

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like Instagram, and too.
Tick-Tock and Facebook have all

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been really, really strong from
both paid ads as well as organic

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content reach.
And it's because that's when

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people are in these modes of
just relaxing and watching Tic

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Tac videos.
They might go buy a, you know, a

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t-shirt or whatever.
But when you think about like be

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to be purchasing, which again,
we're mostly working in B2B,

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that's not how people make those
decisions, right?

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Like how doubt many software
developers are watching tic toc

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and then going oh yeah I should
go you know use this this cool

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hosting tool, right?
Like It's just a, its kind of

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the wrong frame of mind.
So you want to think about frame

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of mind for people.
The other thing that Founders

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miss about, you know, when
they're not being strategic

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about content is how people will
actually find that content.

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So there's kind of a
misconception and especially

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among Founders who aren't
familiar with this world of

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content.
Is if we just start writing

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really good blog post, people
will find it organically those

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are somehow somehow get there.
Unfortunately there are probably

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Millions if not billions of blog
post published every month and

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so You that's just not true,
you're competing with

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essentially world of content
that's flowing around people.

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So having a plan to promote
content is important, but also

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planning for things.
Like, are we actually targeting

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keywords that we could possibly
rank for in the first, you know,

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few months of putting this piece
out?

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That's a really important piece
that some Founders mr.

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Lyon.
Hmm.

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So, those are the biggest, like,
I feel like those are the most

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fatal errors, a lot of the other
stuff than kind of like kills

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you in the long run.
So the other big one I mentioned

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is consistency.
Over time.

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One thing I found and we were
kind of talking about this

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briefly before because I think
we both see this is that people

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that you know do things like
start a podcast or start a blog

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and then don't stick with it for
months years and longer.

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They don't get nearly the value
out of it if people do who stick

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with it for for the long term
and so content is exactly like

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this you've got to be able to
commit to it for months years

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and probably decades if you're
going to build a long you know

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You're really working on a big
company and so building like

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high quality content
consistently for years is a lot

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of work in the think.
A lot of people forget that

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they're not going to see results
in the first three to six

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months.
And so there's really a lot of

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like, it can get discouraging.
It's kind of like, you know,

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when you compare two things like
early stage, tactics that people

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use like let's say you send cold
emails or cold LinkedIn

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messages.
That's going to get you some

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hits pretty quick assuming
you've got your messaging, okay?

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And you're not, your product is
actually needed.

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You're probably going to get a
Well, within two or three

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months, I mean, if you're if
you're any good at closing

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deals, so that's really exciting
because you see, like, okay,

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there's an immediate result
between when I sent this email

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and when I got a yes on, you
know, buying my product content

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isn't like that though.
And so, you have to kind of be

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ready for this long, long slog
to give you like a really

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tangible example.
It's in my mind.

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We, when we started draft Deb
last year, I knew that I wanted

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to invest in content for the
company, but I knew it wasn't

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going to pay off for four months
and maybe He years.

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So just last month, we started
getting our first sales calls

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directly due to content that
we've been writing.

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We've been writing a blog post a
week for a year and highly

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focused on keywords who rank for
and promoting the stuff that

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we're doing, all the things you
have to do, it still takes a

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year to build up your first
sales from content.

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So you kind of have to put that
in your mind.

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It's like, it's this long term
investment that eventually it

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just works while you sleep,
which is awesome.

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But it takes a long time to get
there and you have to think like

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it, Company going to make it for
a year while we build up our

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00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:59,300
content marketing engine or is
our content is our companies

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like so on the brink that we
would just need cold sales to

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get ourselves.
Some some bandwidth and some

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movement on percent.
I mean I work in as they are so

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cold sales is my bread and
butter so I always recommend a

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cold sales, VP work.
The you can track them, their

249
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numbers, their it's more
collectible than freaking

250
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content.
All right.

251
00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:19,700
Yeah.
Yeah I mean you're right like in

252
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the early days when you're just
trying to get like 10 or 100

253
00:12:22,900 --> 00:12:25,700
canas to act, Really use your
thing and tell you it's good or

254
00:12:25,700 --> 00:12:29,300
bad like don't build content,
you know, like the only thing

255
00:12:29,300 --> 00:12:31,800
I'm not ready for that.
Like you need to get on the

256
00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:34,600
phone with these people.
You need to have like in-depth

257
00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:38,000
relationships with them and yes,
it's like a little scary.

258
00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:40,000
I think this is one of the
things too, that draws some

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00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:43,200
Founders to content who are
averse to sales, like they're

260
00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:45,200
just afraid of sales and her
son.

261
00:12:45,300 --> 00:12:47,500
Yep.
It's, you know, I don't want to

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knock content at all.
I think it's great but like you

263
00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:52,800
also you can't do it just
because you're afraid of talking

264
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to people or you're afraid.
If the time's going to take to

265
00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:58,400
schedule calls or like you don't
want to be rejected in a cold

266
00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:01,400
email like, dude, you got to get
over that because this is being

267
00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:04,800
a Founder, you know?
Yeah, if you have a fear of

268
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being rejected on a cold email,
then you have some issues, I

269
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definitely did.
Yeah.

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Like everybody's afraid like I'm
afraid of it but like you have

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to get over that fear.
Like there's a I think and the

272
00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:20,600
same is kind of true with
content to actually see this

273
00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:23,600
pretty often with Founders where
they're afraid to publish a

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Blog.
Plus, because they kind of look

275
00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:27,600
at.
And they like, yeah, I

276
00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:30,500
literally, my last year, I
worked with a Founder directly

277
00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:33,500
to create this huge, like, 5,000
word guide.

278
00:13:33,500 --> 00:13:36,500
I ghost, wrote for him.
And I mean, I thought it was

279
00:13:36,500 --> 00:13:38,000
awesome.
I was, this is like one of the

280
00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:39,200
coolest things I've ever
written.

281
00:13:39,500 --> 00:13:42,400
And he just could never bring
himself to publish it.

282
00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:46,200
Like, you know, I hate this like
I write professionally so I know

283
00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:47,500
good writing like it was good,
right?

284
00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:50,700
No, I got it.
We're doing well at this.

285
00:13:50,700 --> 00:13:53,900
So I know it was good but he was
just like, yeah.

286
00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:57,000
Afraid that, you know, people
might judge me if I put my name

287
00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:58,800
on this boy.
So weird.

288
00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:00,700
Yeah.
So you have to get over that

289
00:14:00,700 --> 00:14:02,700
fear.
No matter what kind of marketing

290
00:14:02,700 --> 00:14:04,800
and sales strategy used for
sure.

291
00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:07,000
Absolutely, I would like to say
that.

292
00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:10,900
I don't understand, but I
actually do or a few of video

293
00:14:10,900 --> 00:14:13,300
episodes that we've never
released because if video

294
00:14:13,300 --> 00:14:16,500
content is just not the thing,
I'm quite over with yet.

295
00:14:16,900 --> 00:14:18,700
Yeah.
No judgment for those Founders

296
00:14:18,700 --> 00:14:21,100
is just something you have to
work on and just talk to

297
00:14:21,100 --> 00:14:23,200
yourself a little bit, you know,
before bed.

298
00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:26,400
And Sooner, or later, you'll get
to terms with yourself that.

299
00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:28,500
It's not gonna be perfect and
you're just like, it's Korea.

300
00:14:28,500 --> 00:14:31,400
Oo, pasta.
Anyways, anyways, now that we

301
00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:34,100
covered that.
Now, that would pretend that

302
00:14:34,100 --> 00:14:37,400
this founder who was hesitant
for months, finally publishes

303
00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:42,300
that 5,000 words guides.
And how do they promoted?

304
00:14:42,300 --> 00:14:43,400
What's the best way to promote
it?

305
00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:46,500
Is it paid sales?
I mean, is it paid marketing?

306
00:14:46,500 --> 00:14:50,700
Is it like Facebook?
Instagram is it just focusing on

307
00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:53,800
SEO that hopefully will pay off
in a couple of months.

308
00:14:54,300 --> 00:14:57,100
Yeah.
So this is a again, kind of one

309
00:14:57,100 --> 00:15:00,700
of the big mistakes that people
make is they start content

310
00:15:00,700 --> 00:15:01,700
marketing.
They think that.

311
00:15:01,700 --> 00:15:04,000
Oh, we're just going to write
something and then it'll just

312
00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:06,300
naturally, get people see it
naturally.

313
00:15:06,300 --> 00:15:08,700
Or maybe I'll put it on Twitter
once and, you know, my audience

314
00:15:08,700 --> 00:15:10,300
will read it and they'll share
it because they love it.

315
00:15:10,300 --> 00:15:13,700
So great that your skin gets
shared that is just extremely

316
00:15:13,700 --> 00:15:16,900
rare and by only by promoting it
very minimally.

317
00:15:16,900 --> 00:15:19,100
So you just post it on your own
Twitter and Linkedin once and

318
00:15:19,100 --> 00:15:22,000
that's the end of the story,
you've given it very little

319
00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:23,800
chance to succeed.
What?

320
00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:26,400
You have to think about is like,
yeah, sure your article is going

321
00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:28,600
to resonate in some tiny
percentage of people who read it

322
00:15:28,608 --> 00:15:31,600
and they're going to share it.
And so the goal is get as many

323
00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:33,700
people reading as possible so
that you can get as many shares

324
00:15:33,700 --> 00:15:36,700
as possible and then it might
just get that Viral Loop going

325
00:15:37,900 --> 00:15:40,800
to kind of like, I mean, it's
rare to get that, so you have to

326
00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:43,500
really push to do that.
So, what I have a big checklist,

327
00:15:43,500 --> 00:15:46,000
I'll send you the link and we
can you can link it up if you

328
00:15:46,008 --> 00:15:48,200
want, but Harper.
So big checklist of things that

329
00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:50,500
I do to promote each piece of
content.

330
00:15:50,700 --> 00:15:55,300
And it includes things like,
Posting it to the most

331
00:15:55,300 --> 00:15:57,500
appropriate subreddits and read.
It can be a little bit of a

332
00:15:57,508 --> 00:16:01,200
tricky world if you're not
familiar but it is a good place

333
00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:02,800
to get people out there, reading
your stuff.

334
00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:06,100
If you're writing really good,
authentic material, using your

335
00:16:06,100 --> 00:16:08,600
own Twitter and your company's
Twitter and your employees.

336
00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:11,400
Twitter's if they're okay with
it to share content and then

337
00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:13,600
share it repeatedly.
It's not just about sharing the

338
00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:15,200
link once and being done with
it.

339
00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:18,100
You can also turn each piece of
content into a thread.

340
00:16:18,100 --> 00:16:20,700
You can share it multiple times
over the course of a quarter or

341
00:16:20,700 --> 00:16:23,800
a year, we share, we kind of
have a huge rotation.

342
00:16:23,900 --> 00:16:25,700
Of our content.
You know as we're writing a

343
00:16:25,700 --> 00:16:28,000
piece of every week that piece
gets shared once when it's

344
00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:30,300
released but then it gets shared
every you know month or two.

345
00:16:30,300 --> 00:16:33,000
After that for many many months
and it kind of you know,

346
00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:38,100
recycled forever and then you
can reach out directly to

347
00:16:38,100 --> 00:16:40,000
newsletters to see if they'll
promote it.

348
00:16:40,500 --> 00:16:44,600
If you've got you know cash and
you think the article is maybe

349
00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:47,200
at a point in your funnel, where
you're going to get some Roi on

350
00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:49,600
it then maybe you can run ads to
it as well.

351
00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:53,700
I think that's a expensive way
to start because content is

352
00:16:53,900 --> 00:16:56,600
Equally aimed more at the top
and middle of your funnel red

353
00:16:56,600 --> 00:17:00,100
and the bottom.
And so when you run a paid ad to

354
00:17:00,100 --> 00:17:02,600
a sales landing page where
people, it's like buy it now,

355
00:17:03,100 --> 00:17:04,800
you've got a pretty, you know,
High close rate.

356
00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:08,800
Whereas if you want to add to a
piece of content, you know the

357
00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:11,300
in the the call to action is
just like, you know, sign up to

358
00:17:11,300 --> 00:17:13,700
get this big piece of content.
Maybe you get some people, maybe

359
00:17:13,700 --> 00:17:17,200
you don't really big mature
companies, do this, a lot

360
00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:19,200
because they kind of know, they
have their whole funnel

361
00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:20,900
lockdown.
They really know how to do it,

362
00:17:20,900 --> 00:17:23,700
but I think smaller startups,
kind of be a little wary of

363
00:17:23,700 --> 00:17:25,300
spending, Earning a lot behind
each piece.

364
00:17:25,700 --> 00:17:28,000
I'll say enough.
Yeah, say another thing.

365
00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:33,400
That some of our clients do kind
of related to paid spend and

366
00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:39,600
content is running retargeting
ads based on people who look at

367
00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:42,200
your blog.
So just to kind of like back out

368
00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:44,700
like if the goal of your blog
post is to get readers and then

369
00:17:44,700 --> 00:17:48,200
make them aware of your company.
The next thing you can do is run

370
00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:51,000
retargeting ads on anyone who's
read a blog post over the next

371
00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:54,800
month or two to just say, oh,
remember us, You know, you read

372
00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:57,700
that blog post by us, like
here's our bar link again and

373
00:17:57,700 --> 00:18:00,000
here's where you can actually
tie it for a services and all

374
00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:01,500
that.
So retargeting is really

375
00:18:01,500 --> 00:18:04,300
powerful.
Like, addition content that gets

376
00:18:04,300 --> 00:18:06,300
under utilized a lot.
Absolutely.

377
00:18:06,500 --> 00:18:08,400
Absolutely 100%.
That's something I've been

378
00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:11,400
struggling with for a long time.
We've spent quite a bit of money

379
00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:13,500
on useless more game that
brought us like, what to

380
00:18:13,500 --> 00:18:15,600
subscribers.
If we're already read it, which

381
00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:18,800
generates zero dollars.
Per year is nonprofit.

382
00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:21,600
We tone make money here.
So yeah, eventually we switched

383
00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:23,600
out to the from that strategy.
We've tried.

384
00:18:23,900 --> 00:18:25,300
Red as well.
Write it is.

385
00:18:25,300 --> 00:18:28,200
Extremely hard advice from
someone who was stealing with

386
00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:32,300
myself, reads the rules of the
sub-race.

387
00:18:32,300 --> 00:18:35,700
They all are different.
They have like 10 15 rules every

388
00:18:35,700 --> 00:18:38,400
time you post something, you
mentioned your company, most

389
00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:40,900
likely they're going to blow.
Yeah, it's yeah.

390
00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:44,000
And what you can do though, to
get around some of those, you,

391
00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:48,000
if you take a piece of content,
actually, we work with our

392
00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:49,900
marketing.
Person takes pieces of content

393
00:18:49,900 --> 00:18:52,700
and slices them up into smaller
bits, and does things like and

394
00:18:52,700 --> 00:18:56,500
the others cancer.
Questions with the content or

395
00:18:57,300 --> 00:19:01,400
answer Reddit threads with the
content or post the threat, the

396
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:06,000
content on a Reddit thread.
So you can kind of like you have

397
00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:08,300
to think too with each big blog
post you write.

398
00:19:08,300 --> 00:19:10,200
So you write a 2,000-word blog
post.

399
00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:13,900
That might be like 20 different
little pieces of content that

400
00:19:13,900 --> 00:19:18,600
you can share across social and
other platforms throughout the

401
00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:21,500
month or year, but a lot of
people under invest in this

402
00:19:21,500 --> 00:19:24,400
promotion side.
So they invest a ton Ton writing

403
00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:27,400
the content and then don't spend
anything getting it out there.

404
00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:30,500
And that's that's really a
Surefire way to make sure nobody

405
00:19:30,500 --> 00:19:33,100
sees it.
Absolutely hundred person.

406
00:19:33,300 --> 00:19:36,800
So let's talk about some free
content generation and

407
00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:40,300
specifically even the one that
might actually pay you a shark

408
00:19:40,300 --> 00:19:43,700
tank and similar company.
Yeah, it's completely honest

409
00:19:43,700 --> 00:19:46,200
with you, I don't know many
competitions like Shark Tank.

410
00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:49,400
I know dolphin tank if it even
exists anymore, I know.

411
00:19:49,700 --> 00:19:52,300
Anyways, there are multiple
competitions like Shark Tank.

412
00:19:52,300 --> 00:19:54,900
Some of them are most of them, I
They are smaller than shark

413
00:19:54,900 --> 00:19:58,100
tank.
But question is, does it, is it

414
00:19:58,100 --> 00:20:01,500
worth the time that is required?
You know, to apply to prepare

415
00:20:01,500 --> 00:20:04,900
the pitch for them and to
actually participate in order to

416
00:20:04,900 --> 00:20:06,700
get this small, percentage
chance of gaining.

417
00:20:06,700 --> 00:20:11,000
Angel shark tank is the whole
process worth that chance of

418
00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:14,500
being on the show.
Yeah, so I was the kind of

419
00:20:14,500 --> 00:20:17,300
backstory on this is, I was with
a company a few years ago,

420
00:20:17,300 --> 00:20:21,000
called pack back and just as I
joined, the founders were on

421
00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:23,300
Shark Tank and I was the first
employee.

422
00:20:23,300 --> 00:20:25,000
So I know.
Have the first engineer.

423
00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:27,000
So I got to make sure the
website stayed running during

424
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:29,800
our Shark Tank appearance and
subsequent traffic.

425
00:20:30,500 --> 00:20:36,300
So shark tank for us was
primarily a brand building in

426
00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:39,400
Authority building and kind of
like added credibility to our

427
00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:41,100
name.
We were early early on the

428
00:20:41,100 --> 00:20:43,200
founders were just out of
college.

429
00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:46,400
I wasn't, I was young too so
like none of us had a lot of

430
00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:51,600
cash, a behind us, but getting
on there early and we got a, an

431
00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:53,000
investment from our Cuban as
well.

432
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:57,000
And so, that was It added a ton
of credibility made later

433
00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:01,500
fundraising a lot easier now was
it like you know worth it quote

434
00:21:01,500 --> 00:21:03,400
unquote from a Content
perspective?

435
00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:05,100
Only?
I don't know, I mean it brings

436
00:21:05,100 --> 00:21:07,400
you some backlinks.
So we haven't talked about this

437
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:10,500
yet either, but one of the and I
should have mentioned this

438
00:21:10,500 --> 00:21:11,900
during promotion because his
obvious.

439
00:21:11,900 --> 00:21:15,700
But what is that?
This is the curse of like, you,

440
00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:17,800
when you get it.
I know this too well and I

441
00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:21,800
forget things the.
So yeah, so backing up backlinks

442
00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:23,600
are essentially like one another
website.

443
00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:27,000
X to your site or your piece of
content or your blog post, it

444
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:30,700
tends to raise that that Pages
profile and Google results

445
00:21:30,700 --> 00:21:32,900
later.
So if I write an article about

446
00:21:32,900 --> 00:21:36,800
developer marketing and then
lots of companies share that and

447
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:39,500
post, you know, links to it on
their blogs, it helps that

448
00:21:39,500 --> 00:21:43,500
article rank up higher in Google
results and getting a link from

449
00:21:43,500 --> 00:21:46,000
Shark Tank and all the press
that surrounds Shark Tank.

450
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:48,900
So, whenever you're on a show
like that, they, you know, a lot

451
00:21:48,900 --> 00:21:51,900
of media Outlets will pick it up
and link to your site that does

452
00:21:51,900 --> 00:21:53,700
help with getting your site more
visibility.

453
00:21:53,900 --> 00:21:58,000
In Google.
So for things like b2c Brands

454
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:00,500
where you're trying to sell to
Consumers, you need mass-market

455
00:22:00,500 --> 00:22:02,200
appeal.
Something like Shark Tank could

456
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:04,800
be really good because when
people, search for things like,

457
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:07,900
I don't know, home cleaning
supplies and you've been on

458
00:22:07,900 --> 00:22:09,900
Shark Tank, maybe you rank
higher for home cleaning

459
00:22:09,900 --> 00:22:11,500
supplies than other companies
that have.

460
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:15,100
But, yeah, it's a, I mean, give
you have to think any time

461
00:22:15,100 --> 00:22:19,000
you're giving away Equity is.
That's a big, you know, that's a

462
00:22:19,008 --> 00:22:22,200
big commitment, right?
So, if you do, go on there and

463
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:24,200
you really have to think about
those deals, There's a there's a

464
00:22:24,208 --> 00:22:27,700
lot more behind the scenes that
happens, you know, not just the

465
00:22:27,700 --> 00:22:29,300
the 15 minutes, they show you on
TV.

466
00:22:29,300 --> 00:22:32,500
So there is more due diligence
on both sides that happens

467
00:22:32,500 --> 00:22:34,100
before.
So you don't really have to just

468
00:22:34,100 --> 00:22:37,700
say yes.
And actually say yes that s but

469
00:22:37,700 --> 00:22:41,200
it's definitely something to
think about and it is, and I

470
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:43,800
think it's certain industries
can be helpful to get some

471
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:47,200
credibility and, you know, it's
not again not right for

472
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,200
everybody.
But this, the whole idea of

473
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:51,000
getting pressed is not a bad
idea.

474
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:55,400
Generally, so to another example
that's like, Couple weeks ago, I

475
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:59,200
got a featured article on
TechCrunch because, hey, yeah,

476
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:01,300
there's a client nominated us
for something.

477
00:23:01,300 --> 00:23:03,400
And then, you know, reporter,
reach out to me and did an

478
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:05,600
interview and that has been
huge.

479
00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:09,700
It immediately brought in at
least 15 sales calls, which is

480
00:23:09,700 --> 00:23:14,900
way more than my normal volume
and it had a lot of credibility

481
00:23:14,900 --> 00:23:18,300
when I, you know did follow up.
So the first people I'm selling,

482
00:23:18,300 --> 00:23:21,000
you know, like hey, just so you
know, we were mentioned in this

483
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:24,100
big TechCrunch feature and, you
know, just seeing If you want to

484
00:23:24,100 --> 00:23:26,900
close the deal this week and it
really helps a lot when you've

485
00:23:26,900 --> 00:23:29,100
got that behind you.
So doing some of that can be

486
00:23:29,100 --> 00:23:30,700
really, really helpful for
credibility.

487
00:23:30,900 --> 00:23:32,500
Whether shark tank is right for
you or not.

488
00:23:32,500 --> 00:23:34,100
That's totally depends on your
industry.

489
00:23:34,100 --> 00:23:36,300
And who you need to reach?
I'm still 100%.

490
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:41,400
So, let's talk a little bit
about cutting Corners here, and

491
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:43,200
specific way, you mentioned
multiple times.

492
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:45,900
You know, most likely, you're
not going to be able to identify

493
00:23:45,900 --> 00:23:48,400
the strategies working are not
for at least six months, you

494
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:52,600
just have to do it, you have to
put time dedication, it and hope

495
00:23:52,700 --> 00:23:56,000
for the best.
Basically, Are there any ways to

496
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:59,100
figure out early on that?
This strategy is just not

497
00:23:59,100 --> 00:24:00,800
working.
Two months in, you are

498
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:05,300
developing, great content for
promoting it and are there, are

499
00:24:05,300 --> 00:24:09,800
there any tools or are there any
ways to just Clearly say that it

500
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:13,900
is not working?
Well, that's a good question, I

501
00:24:13,900 --> 00:24:16,100
think it kind of depends how
you're doing it.

502
00:24:16,100 --> 00:24:18,700
So if you're going into it,
you're not being strategic and

503
00:24:18,700 --> 00:24:20,600
you just kind of say, I'm just
going to write a random blog

504
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:22,900
post every week.
I wouldn't expect you to see

505
00:24:22,900 --> 00:24:26,800
results for or for almost ever.
I mean, you're used to what's

506
00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:29,400
gonna happen is you might every
rescue months?

507
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:31,000
Yeah.
Well like every few months, you

508
00:24:31,008 --> 00:24:33,400
might accidentally write an
article that does well in Google

509
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,300
because you happen to get the
right keyword combination and

510
00:24:36,300 --> 00:24:40,300
get some backlinks right?
And that's extremely I mean you

511
00:24:40,300 --> 00:24:43,300
don't want luck based marketing.
That's just a that's a dangerous

512
00:24:43,300 --> 00:24:44,700
game.
You're just spending a lot of

513
00:24:44,708 --> 00:24:48,500
money like that.
So the I'll call it the correct

514
00:24:48,500 --> 00:24:51,100
way to do content marketing.
Especially as you get started,

515
00:24:51,100 --> 00:24:53,700
is to use a tool like sem
Russia.

516
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:58,100
A Travis that will show you the
keyword volume and difficulty,

517
00:24:58,100 --> 00:25:01,400
and that'll give you a sense.
You can go, you know, they've

518
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,300
both got good blogs with lots of
tutorials and how to do this.

519
00:25:04,300 --> 00:25:06,800
But essentially, what you do is
you look for keywords in your

520
00:25:06,808 --> 00:25:09,500
industry, that are not that
difficult to rank for yet,

521
00:25:09,500 --> 00:25:13,200
because maybe they're kind of
knew or their long tail keywords

522
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,500
that your big competitors.
Don't care about yet and you

523
00:25:16,500 --> 00:25:19,400
start to try to write content
around those keywords that are

524
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:22,000
easier to grab and you
eventually start to work your

525
00:25:22,008 --> 00:25:23,800
way up to harder and harder
keywords as you.

526
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:25,800
As you get more domain
Authority, and you get better at

527
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:27,700
it.
If you do that intentionally,

528
00:25:27,700 --> 00:25:30,800
you will start to see like
actual, you'll start to get on

529
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:33,200
the first page of Google results
within three months.

530
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,700
I mean, almost any industry.
There's there's maybe some rare

531
00:25:36,700 --> 00:25:39,600
exceptions, but generally
speaking, there is, there are

532
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:42,500
opportunities anywhere if you
know how to work, a hundred

533
00:25:42,500 --> 00:25:45,200
percent does, is there a true
statements indeed?

534
00:25:45,300 --> 00:25:49,400
So let's talk about, I'm just
trying to make sure that we

535
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:52,300
exploit all the ways of cutting
Corners possible.

536
00:25:52,300 --> 00:25:56,900
Just, you know, be Fast are
there any life hacks are there

537
00:25:56,900 --> 00:26:01,400
any other ways that can expedite
the process of Brazil's that

538
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:04,200
content marketing brings in?
Are there any specific

539
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:06,400
strategies that maybe some of
your previous clients used?

540
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,900
Or you use for some of your
previous clients to drive sales

541
00:26:09,900 --> 00:26:12,800
faster than in six months?
Yeah, absolutely.

542
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:15,700
So the SEO strategy is the
long-term strategy and it's

543
00:26:15,700 --> 00:26:17,600
great because it's like
compounding interest.

544
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:20,000
Like once you've gotten a
critical mass of articles that

545
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,900
are focused on certain keywords,
you'll start to get just like

546
00:26:22,900 --> 00:26:25,600
this reliable.
Will flow of, you know, 10,000

547
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:27,700
visitors a month to 100,000
visitors month and when you see

548
00:26:27,700 --> 00:26:29,900
companies get to that point it's
like a machine.

549
00:26:29,900 --> 00:26:32,100
It's awesome.
But it takes a long time as to

550
00:26:32,100 --> 00:26:34,600
your point to get to that point
and so you don't necessarily

551
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,300
want to only do that kind of
content early on because you got

552
00:26:37,300 --> 00:26:39,500
other priorities.
Like we've talked about already

553
00:26:39,500 --> 00:26:42,300
like getting a sale in the first
year or two is way more

554
00:26:42,300 --> 00:26:44,400
important than writing a
thousand pieces of content.

555
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,100
So is it?
There's a couple things you can

556
00:26:47,100 --> 00:26:48,500
do here around content
marketing?

557
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:52,100
The first is to, instead of
doing all the content on your

558
00:26:52,100 --> 00:26:55,700
own site to build your own SEO,
You could sort of tap into

559
00:26:55,700 --> 00:26:58,500
existing audiences.
You could write guest posts for

560
00:26:58,500 --> 00:27:01,000
industry newsletters or industry
websites.

561
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:05,000
For example, I write for the
stack, Overflow blog, pretty

562
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:08,200
every couple months and stack
Overflow is a really popular

563
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:10,800
site for software developers and
people in developer marketing.

564
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:13,500
And so they everybody knows that
that blog.

565
00:27:13,500 --> 00:27:15,400
And I get, you know, when I put
an article out there, it gets

566
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:18,500
shared a lot on Twitter and I
get some, you know, like I get

567
00:27:18,500 --> 00:27:21,500
people reaching out to me after
those articles every time and so

568
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:23,600
it's a, it's helpful for them,
they get caught.

569
00:27:23,700 --> 00:27:25,100
Content, that's really good for
their blog.

570
00:27:25,100 --> 00:27:26,900
It's helpful for me because I'm
getting, you know, more

571
00:27:26,900 --> 00:27:30,400
awareness and building my own
sort of authority in the space

572
00:27:30,700 --> 00:27:33,500
and so that kind of relationship
with a couple of Publications.

573
00:27:33,500 --> 00:27:35,800
Can really help you.
If you're getting started,

574
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:37,400
another thing they can get you
some results.

575
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:40,800
Early on is building content
that helps your sales process

576
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:42,200
out.
So again, if you're in

577
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,500
early-stage, startup and you're
doing B2B sales, you're going to

578
00:27:45,500 --> 00:27:48,300
send a bunch of cold emails,
you're going to get some yeses,

579
00:27:48,300 --> 00:27:51,700
and some nose, and the people
who say, maybe you want to push

580
00:27:51,700 --> 00:27:55,300
them along the journey, right?
Like you want to say you want to

581
00:27:55,300 --> 00:27:58,900
say like okay well if you did
use our tool, here's how great,

582
00:27:58,900 --> 00:28:01,000
you know, your life would be.
So you can do things like

583
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,500
published case studies, you can
have detailed testimonials.

584
00:28:04,500 --> 00:28:08,700
You could have video
testimonials, you could have use

585
00:28:08,700 --> 00:28:10,800
cases.
We write a lot of tutorials that

586
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:13,600
are like this, where for
software developers, if they

587
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:15,800
hear of a new tool and they're
like, oh, the seems cool but

588
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,700
does it work with with my chosen
framework and My Chosen

589
00:28:18,700 --> 00:28:21,000
programming language?
And that's where we might write

590
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,400
a piece of content, that shows
them how that happens.

591
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:26,800
And that can be really great.
It's called I would call this

592
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:28,700
like sales enablement content
essentially.

593
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:31,100
Hmm.
That stuff is usually less.

594
00:28:31,300 --> 00:28:32,600
You know, it's maybe not as top
of funnel.

595
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:35,300
It's a lot more bottom of funnel
type content, but it's also

596
00:28:35,300 --> 00:28:38,000
really easy to get results from
it early on, where as SEO is

597
00:28:38,008 --> 00:28:40,700
going to be that long term.
Got to do this for six months

598
00:28:40,700 --> 00:28:43,000
before we really start getting
anything from rehab.

599
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,800
So we'll but people keep in mind
that that is just as supplements

600
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:49,400
who your sales process.
It's is not a sale.

601
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:52,000
Yes, on itself.
So yeah, absolutely just be

602
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:53,900
aware of that.
Apparently there are No

603
00:28:53,900 --> 00:28:57,000
shortcuts on this depressing
note, we're going to be wrapping

604
00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:00,400
up over episode and moving on to
the very last question of

605
00:29:00,900 --> 00:29:04,800
today's episode, I said episode
like three times cheaper so so

606
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,500
Carl what do you want the
listener to do?

607
00:29:07,500 --> 00:29:10,300
As soon as the episode is over?
Yeah.

608
00:29:10,300 --> 00:29:13,800
If you want to, you can go to
Carlisle Hughes.com, and that's

609
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,700
my personal website where I've
got my email Twitter list,

610
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:19,100
LinkedIn, you can connect me any
of those places.

611
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:22,800
And then, yeah, it's Karl L
Hughes with a K.

612
00:29:23,100 --> 00:29:24,800
So that will That'll get, you
will have the link.

613
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:27,800
I'm sure here.
And yeah, I'm happy to answer

614
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:30,900
questions about content.
I, you know, we do a very

615
00:29:30,900 --> 00:29:33,700
specific kind of production for
Content marketing, but like I

616
00:29:33,708 --> 00:29:36,700
know a lot of people in other
niches that could help with

617
00:29:36,700 --> 00:29:38,000
other Industries.
So I'm happy to make

618
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:39,800
introductions.
If you're a Founder, who's

619
00:29:40,100 --> 00:29:42,300
looking to get into content
marketing and you kind of need,

620
00:29:42,300 --> 00:29:45,200
you need a place to start.
There's also some resources, I'd

621
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:47,500
be happy to send you, so I love
connecting with other

622
00:29:47,500 --> 00:29:49,500
entrepreneurs.
You know, I've worked with

623
00:29:49,500 --> 00:29:52,400
startups for over at least 10
years now, I think.

624
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:56,600
And so, Happy to share more
about the journey and things

625
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,600
that goods and bad's and
everything in between perfect.

626
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:02,700
That is awesome.
Definitely shrieking to reach

627
00:30:02,700 --> 00:30:05,400
out to you later on about our
course promotion.

628
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:08,500
But that is a story for another
month I would say.

629
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:12,000
So yeah, that's called station,
is my call to action.

630
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,300
We can do pretty much similar.
Check out the description says

631
00:30:14,300 --> 00:30:15,800
episode.
There's can be bunch of stuff

632
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:17,400
there.
Most likely there is going to be

633
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:20,700
just like literally one link to
his website that curl mentioned.

634
00:30:20,900 --> 00:30:22,800
And also there's gonna be a link
to that.

635
00:30:23,900 --> 00:30:26,000
Checklist that Carl mentioned
earlier.

636
00:30:26,300 --> 00:30:28,900
Anyways, I'll follow up with
Carl after the episode so he

637
00:30:28,900 --> 00:30:32,400
sends me everything in an email
so I don't forget anything.

638
00:30:32,500 --> 00:30:35,900
So there's gonna be a lot of
useful information in the

639
00:30:35,900 --> 00:30:37,900
description because episode so
go check it out.

640
00:30:37,900 --> 00:30:40,100
And as usually have a good day,