April 1, 2022
The story of three pivots and growth management. By Koby Conrad from Rupa Health.
Koby Conrad, Head of Growth at Rupa Health and Founder of Channels of Growth talks about his experience building a company and pivoting 3 times. He also explains what growth management looks like and who should be dealing with that field.
Koby's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kobyconrad/
Subscribe to Channels of Growth here: https://channelsofgrowth.substack.com/
Course on fundraising by Fundraising Radio team: https://fundraising-courses.com/
Rupa Health's site: https://www.rupahealth.com/
Some topics we have covered in this episode:
- what does your day-to-day as a growth manager look like?
- what do you think are the essential skills for a good growth manager to make growth really happen and to run a successful growth team?
- you were previously a founder, your company got into YC and then you've raised $2 million for a completely different company, why did you decide to pivot?
- how much of the current knowledge of the growth management field did you have back then?
Transcript
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They're releasing to fundraising
video a podcast about
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fundraising for early-stage
startups, the major rule that we
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follow here is no bullshit on
this podcast.
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No music to relax, you know,
advertisements of our sponsors.
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We only talk about fundraising
here and nothing else.
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So let's jump into the episode.
And today is a guest speaker.
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We have Kobe cornered, head of
growth, adds Rupa health, and
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also the founder.
ER, and this episode, we'll talk
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about Rupa Health, how they have
fund raised?
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How Kobe is managing their head
know that?
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Nope, never mind.
Hmm.
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We doing are we doing redoing
the whole enjoys?
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How Kobe is managing their
heads, seriously?
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All right, yeah, my defense in
my defense.
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I'll see them running a little
bit low sleep, but hopefully
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second run is gonna go a little
bit better as many times as you
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want, man.
No rested.
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All right, perfect.
Hmm.
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All right so I can try and today
as a guest speaker will have
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copy convert head of growth at
rubra health and also the
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founder and this episode will
mostly talk about, what does it
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mean to be the head of growth?
How to actually group companies?
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What does it imply on the daily
basis and how founders of
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smaller companies that have not
raised hundreds of millions
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dollars?
Can actually hire heads of
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growth or higher growth managers
so Colby Let's kick it off by
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you giving us some background on
yourself and on Rupa Health to
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get started.
Absolutely.
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So hi.
My name's Coby and I run growth,
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a triple Health.
Um, what should I say?
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I don't know.
It's been a really fun journey.
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I was able to come in as the
first growth marketing higher
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out Rupa and it was really
fascinating just being able to
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just build up the team from
ground up and then watch as Rupa
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has grown over time.
We went from a twenty million
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dollar seed stage valuation to
we gesture.
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Announced 110 million dollars
series evaluation.
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We raised about 20 million
dollars.
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And personally I have about 10
years of experience running
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growth and marketing campaigns.
I've worked on campaigns up to
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five million dollars a month and
previously, YC alumni ran a
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marketing agency for four years
was National National
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advertising director for you as
mortgage Corporation and of
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done.
A lot of fun growth and
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marketing work over my my days.
Nice.
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Yeah, it sounds pretty fun.
Running campaigns of 5 million
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per month, that is quite
impressive and we're definitely
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going to touch on to that but a
little bit later first things
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first.
How does your day-to-day look
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like?
Because girl, with managers,
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they do a ton, a ton of
different stuff in.
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Sometimes is quite a bit of a
struggle to describe and you may
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view onto that in one of your
posts on sub stack explaining
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what you actually do and how to
explain to other people would
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has of growth.
Do so good.
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We can Explain to our listeners
would do you do as the head of
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go that route but specifically.
Yeah, so my job is changed
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drastically from when I first
came on to where it is now and
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even where it is now, it's
evolving, really really rapidly.
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So when I first started, I was
basically a one-man show and
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with a very, very broad mandates
of growing the company.
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And I think those broad mandate
is one of the reasons why why
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the growth teams between
organizations vary.
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So drastically is like you have
like the Facebook OG growth
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team, where it's very engineer,
and p.m. heavy.
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Ours is definitely focused more
on demand gen although
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occasionally I do get to do some
fun stuff working with them the
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product.
So we do a lot of Partnerships,
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a lot of marketing across
Facebook and Google.
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We also handle the sales.
So I built out our onboarding
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management team and then hand
that off to customers.
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It's currently building out an
SDR team is one unique thing
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about Rupa is our education,
team runs underneath of growth
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as well.
So we do a lot of live classes.
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We have one coming up.
We have like 700 doctors that
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are gonna be on it which is
really awesome.
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And then yeah basically it's a
really really broad mandate um
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at the start we did a lot of
stuff that was more
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operationally focused as well.
So like how do we like Hire
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engineers and create a team that
like, really good Engineers.
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We want to come.
So I worked really closely with
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a good friend of mine Ben and
our co-founder to be able to,
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like, build up our engineers and
run the hiring process.
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And they kind of have that
fleshed out now, which is
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awesome.
So, I've moved into other
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things.
Like, how do we make sure we're
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working with legal to make sure
our margins are maximized in a
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way that make legal sense for
our company, and bunch of fun
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stuff like that, right?
So, From the description, your
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job sounds like the VP of sales
right there.
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What is the major difference
between you and VP of sales?
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So I think a VP of sales that
can get kind of broken down into
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two like two categories is if
you're if you're a VP of sales
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and you're in a sales LED
organization.
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Usually your primary primary
channel is like sales so when I
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say that I mean it's like it's
outbound cold calling or like
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email sequencing like Str type
stuff, it's going to events and
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like showing up the sales people
at conferences.
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But then there's also this like
sales category or work.
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That's like okay.
If you have inbound people, how
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do you convert those people to
paint customers.
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So like actually explaining
complicated deals to people.
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And all that's really fun and
fine, but there's not usually a
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ton of operational components to
it and there's not usually a ton
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of once the sale happens, the
job ends.
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And I think that's one of the
coolest things about growth is
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that the Concord job of growth,
never ends at any point in the
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users life cycle.
So we use the AAE our framework,
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so acquisition activation
engagement and retention.
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So how do we acquire as many
users?
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As we can, how do we activate
those users?
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Get them to start placing orders
and then how do we increase
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their engagement?
So once our users are en route,
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but how do we get them to use
our product more?
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How do we get them to place more
orders?
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And then we also, Very, very
heavily focused on retention of
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how do we make sure that those
people never leave us?
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Because if we're, like
constantly turning users,
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because they've had a bad
experience, or there's something
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within the product that they
don't like, or something within
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the product that's missing as
you get bigger, you're like
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basically putting people on the
top, which is what a VP of sales
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might do.
But then you're also losing
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people at the bottom that are
like, falling out of your
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bucket.
So it's a lot more Broad in the
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mandates of what we get to do.
And what we get to work with,
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right?
So it sounds like being big head
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of growth.
It's more fun than being the VP
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of sales.
All right, let's see how it is.
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Okay.
All right, so let's let's touch
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on two very interesting subject,
which you mentioned which is
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building out the SD our team.
This is a very, very interesting
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subject for a lot of our
listeners because a big portion
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of them are just getting into
the stage of tons and tons of
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our bound to generate this
initial growth and to actually
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start creating On the inbound,
eventually.
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But at this point, the majority
of them are at the stage where
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they have to actually reach out
to the potential customers in
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order to, you know, get a foot
in the door.
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They don't have that much of
inbound.
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So let's talk about hiring sdrs.
First of all, what is The major
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problem for you in this process
of finding you as the ours,
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where are you looking for them?
Are you looking exclusively in
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the u.s. because rubra health is
based in the US?
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Or are you looking all over the
world?
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Let's start with that one.
Yeah.
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So we're looking in the US.
I don't have any super major
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preference about location where
we're looking for.
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Its SDR is probably the wrong
word.
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We're looking for people who are
really, really good at Cold
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sales and can almost whole life
cycle.
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Usually Str, it's more like an
appointment setting roll.
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Yeah.
They're, they're like actually
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owning the whole sales process
group is a funny industry
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because We make a lot of money
per user, but there's not that
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many of them, some, some Growth
work, like I mentioned before,
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like working on a campaign of
five million dollars a month.
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That's really cool.
Rupa is really cool because it's
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more about how do you target an
audience?
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That's really hard to Target.
So with that logic, where we
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want to build up a tiny sales,
team of really, really good
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sales.
People that are able to go out
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and basically work through our
be with like a fine-tooth comb
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more than you could do it, like
Facebook ads, for example.
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Yeah.
Look in the u.s. looking for
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anyone who is like just super,
super killer a sales, we have a
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head of practitioner
Partnerships called Adrienne and
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he is it's basically our
outbound headed outbound sales
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role.
So he, he's been running an
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experiment for the last two
months basically, testing the
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waters to see what the results
of this role might look.
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Like if we hired someone to do
it full time and yeah, we had
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really good results, so far.
So the next step is we ran our
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experiment, the experiment
determines that this might
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actually be super profitable for
us.
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So next step is go higher maybe
one or two people full-time and
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slowly build up from that nice.
That is very interesting.
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Super excited to see how that
goes and please keep me.
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Posted the next time we're going
to talk is probably going to be
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windy episode is going to go
live.
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So I'm pretty Uh sure you're
going to have some updates on
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that but for now quick question
about targeting people who are
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very hard to start it.
But as a very big pain point
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over a lot of our listeners
because quite a few of them are
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actually in either deep tack or
not.
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I forgot the word for it.
The big companies, how do you
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call the big companies?
Could we help me out here like,
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big corporations?
Like what do you mean?
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Yes, big corporations, what do
you call it?
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There, there's a term for them.
I'm not sure enterprise
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Enterprise sales enter politics,
that's what I was looking for
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entry price.
So a lot of our listeners are
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actually working with
Enterprises and quite a few of
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them are not like professional
professional salespeople, or at
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least they're not specialized
and Enterprise sales and
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targeting through Facebook ads.
That is just not a way to go
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there.
So, for you personally for your
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team, how do you, how do you
figure out how to find those,
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you know, hard to Target people?
Yeah.
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So for us we basically went out
and anyone, we scraped our whole
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industry is the okay.
This way as we basically went
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through Google and we found any
practitioners in the United
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States that identified
themselves as functional
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medicine and then we scraped all
of their domain names and then
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we put them in a big sell sheet
and then we ran that through
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Hunter I/O and fan Ghostbuster.
Okay, and Buster and synbuster,
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one of the two.
Anyways, we were able to pull
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out all of their contact info
from those two things and we
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were able to create a database
of basically, every single
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practitioner that had a digital
presidents within the United
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States with the contact
information.
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And then once we have that
contact information, we're able
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to do a bunch of stuff with
that.
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We re and we actually were able
to create Facebook and Google
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audiences off of that to run ads
towards them.
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We had their Dressed.
So we are able to cold call
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them.
This is one of the reasons why
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we want to hire an outbound
sales team is because now we're
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able to like go having a human
work.
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The leads is a much stronger
impression than just like hats
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or but yeah it's it's Unique for
us just the way we did.
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It was very unique to our
industry but there's lots of
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really cool ways to Target
people with my sub sack.
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I wanted to Target everyone in
the United States.
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Who has growth in their title.
So I was able to use Apollo and
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basically just pull out all that
information, Founders that want
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to Target like startups, you
could pretty easily go on, like
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product hunt and Hacker News and
just like scrape.
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The, the list every day of
everyone who watches and then
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run that through similar tools
like Hunter.
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I owe it.
We live in this, like, really
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cool period of time.
Where as long as you have the
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domain name, you're able to get
all the contact.
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And so that's, you know, Mein
name and basically just send
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them cold emails and you can get
really high open rates.
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It's crazy.
Absolutely!
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That is very true and that is
how I met Toby and that is how I
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subscribe to Hibbs.
Self stack eventually became the
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paid subscribers.
Yeah, I mean it works.
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God dammit?
That's that's why I'm Barry.
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So on this note I'm gonna last
question about sales and then
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we're going to go back to
actually talking about
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00:13:32,700 --> 00:13:35,800
fundraising.
But one question I had about
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seals here.
Is it Escape my mind?
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I'm going to try to grab it.
It's gone.
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No worries.
That is unfortunate.
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Oh well.
Oh well, oh, scraping that's the
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question.
I had scraping was personally.
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So I personally love that
approach.
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I've done it quite a few times
but scraping was always the hard
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part for me.
I always struggle with it.
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I spent hours and hours, find
new tools because some of them
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get banned.
And what you'll do you use and
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how you know, how frequently
does it get banned for scraping
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specifically.
Yeah, so there's Over ways to do
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it.
I always just hire someone to do
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it on.
There are a lot of really good
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people on up work who have
awesome python scrape, Python
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scripts to like, go and do it.
If you are a programmer lie, if
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you're a programmer inhibiting
level of programmability, it's
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actually not that hard to build
a lot of trails that are like
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how to build a python scraper
and like a couple hours.
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Also, if you have access to Any
engineering resources on your
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growth team usually, they'll be
able to help you out as well.
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Perfect.
And how much would that cost to
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hire someone?
Just so that everyone is on the
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same page with their
expectations on how much they're
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going to spend on this whole
thing on up work, you we usually
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pay anywhere between like 1 cent
25 cents per record.
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Okay?
So it's four record,
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interesting, good to know.
All right, perfect.
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And that's, he's, let's move on
and talk about major subject
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over the entire podcast, which
is actually fundraising now A
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worker growth and sales.
Let's talk about the company
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that you personally ran.
So you have mentioned, to me,
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that your company actually got
into Y combinator, and then you
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00:15:23,300 --> 00:15:27,000
have right after getting out of
Y, combinator, work shortly
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after you have pivoted and then
raise money for it, specifically
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to million dollars and then you
have to it again.
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00:15:33,300 --> 00:15:36,600
So can you briefly?
Tell us this very, very
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00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:40,200
interesting story and let's
start with you getting into y
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combinator, Yeah, absolutely.
Um, okay.
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So it really started with my
little brother.
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Honestly, my little brother
graduated school and went out to
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work at segments and in San
Francisco.
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00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:59,000
And at the time I was still
working at us mortgage and my
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00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:01,300
brother was like, you should
quit your job and sell your
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00:16:01,300 --> 00:16:04,800
house and should move out to San
Francisco and I was like, that
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00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:07,000
sounds like an excellent.
Excellent idea.
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A little brother, let's do that.
So I quit my job and sell.
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I sell my house.
I moved out to SF and about six
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weeks after I get into San
Francisco, Evan applies for y
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00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:20,900
combinator and he's like, Kobe.
I applied for this, you can't
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tell anybody.
And I put you down as my
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co-founder and I'm like, oh
shit.
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Okay, so we get called, we get
called for an interview and, um,
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00:16:31,100 --> 00:16:33,400
it's hilarious.
Like we go down, we go down
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there and we talked to the
partners, and it's there like 10
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00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:40,700
minutes long so you can
directly, we get out of the
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thing.
And Unlike collapses, on the
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couch.
And anyways, we get the call
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later that we get in and I'm
like shit.
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00:16:48,100 --> 00:16:49,400
Now, I have to quit my job
again.
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00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:55,600
Um, so we got in as a company
called cork which was cognitive
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behavioral therapy on your phone
and the the product was really
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00:17:01,900 --> 00:17:05,099
cool people.
Really liked it, I think therapy
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00:17:05,099 --> 00:17:07,599
and mental health in general,
kind of has a fatal flaw of
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00:17:07,599 --> 00:17:10,200
everyone's really hyped about
it, but nobody wants to do their
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00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:14,099
therapy exercises.
Has, um, so we were able to grow
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the app and we were able to get
a lot of like initial traction
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00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:20,500
with it.
Even even our Apple search ads
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00:17:20,500 --> 00:17:24,099
had a three hundred percent ROI
on them, so it was growing
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00:17:24,099 --> 00:17:30,600
really possibly the issue.
Was that after 30 days, people's
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00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:34,100
daily usage was that even though
they're paying us money, the
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00:17:34,100 --> 00:17:37,400
daily usage of the product was
like, less than 1%.
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00:17:37,700 --> 00:17:42,600
So we were, we were in this like
dilemma of We got into YC with
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this product and the product was
growing and it was very
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00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:49,400
profitable but nobody actually
used it.
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00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:52,500
Like, we were basically just
making money off of people not
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00:17:52,500 --> 00:17:55,000
cancelling their subscriptions
and like feeling bad about
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00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:56,300
canceling, their mental health
app.
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00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:00,800
So we went, we went through with
you this.
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We we did this for demo day and
we raised like a little bit of
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money.
I think like, 100 200 case
325
00:18:08,100 --> 00:18:11,100
something like that, but
ultimately like there wasn't
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00:18:11,100 --> 00:18:13,200
really Real product Market fit.
We're just really good at
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00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:18,100
selling shit.
Um, so we decided to Pivot and
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00:18:18,100 --> 00:18:22,900
we pivoted the company into a
company called room, service and
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room service was a conflict,
free replicated data type as a
330
00:18:26,300 --> 00:18:28,600
service.
So if you've ever used figma or
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00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:32,400
word doc or any product where
multiple people can collaborate
332
00:18:32,500 --> 00:18:36,300
on it on the same time that
piece of software that lets
333
00:18:36,300 --> 00:18:38,900
multiple people use it.
At the same time is actually
334
00:18:38,900 --> 00:18:42,000
extremely complicated to build.
Google.
335
00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:44,600
It takes like a team of
Engineers they spent millions of
336
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dollars on their system that
allowed multiple people to use
337
00:18:47,900 --> 00:18:50,000
it.
So we basically made that same
338
00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:54,900
system and we like let other
people use it within like 15
339
00:18:54,900 --> 00:18:57,400
minutes instead of having to
spend like a year building this
340
00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:01,000
thing.
Um, so that is really
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00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:06,000
interesting because I think it
highlights one of the really
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00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:10,300
interesting problems of early
like fundraising for early-stage
343
00:19:10,300 --> 00:19:14,200
startups.
So when we raise money for this,
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00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:17,300
we had basically, we didn't have
really a working product.
345
00:19:17,300 --> 00:19:23,100
We have a working prototype and
we had no traction and compare
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00:19:23,100 --> 00:19:25,800
this to court.
For example, which we had a
347
00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:30,000
working product, we had
traction, we had Revenue, we had
348
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:33,200
revenue, and we had tons of
users that loved it.
349
00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:38,400
And when we raise money for room
service, it was drastically
350
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:40,500
easier.
Like, oh my gosh, it was so much
351
00:19:40,500 --> 00:19:42,400
easier to raise money.
For room service than it was for
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00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:46,000
court, even though, like, we're
raising money with, with no
353
00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:49,100
product and no user, no real
project, no users.
354
00:19:49,900 --> 00:19:54,300
Um, and I think it's one of the
most interesting things is that
355
00:19:54,300 --> 00:19:57,800
like when you're raising really
early-stage funds, so much of
356
00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:03,400
the Rays is predicated around
the vision and the team we were
357
00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:07,000
we were able to sell the vision
of like, look at this really
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00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:09,800
hard problem that were solving
and look at all of these really
359
00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:11,500
amazing collaborative.
Addicts.
360
00:20:11,500 --> 00:20:13,800
And if we can build a thing
here, we're going to be able to
361
00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:19,300
make this like really, really
huge and rooms and cork on the
362
00:20:19,308 --> 00:20:21,300
other hand was, like, kind of
stuck in the mud.
363
00:20:22,100 --> 00:20:24,400
And what I mean by that is,
like, once you start having
364
00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:28,600
metrics, the people start,
looking at the metrics, but we
365
00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:31,300
will have an Ethics people.
Just look at the product in the
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00:20:31,308 --> 00:20:32,400
dream.
God.
367
00:20:32,900 --> 00:20:36,500
And I think this is one of the
reasons why you see so many
368
00:20:36,500 --> 00:20:39,800
startups are like, we just raise
this really huge seed round of
369
00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:43,000
this really huge precede.
You look at them, but they don't
370
00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:47,800
even have a product, they have
no users and it's a, it's a real
371
00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:51,800
thing is when you really early
stage so much of the raised
372
00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:56,000
starts to revolve around the
dream that you're selling.
373
00:20:56,500 --> 00:21:01,300
And as you as you go through
your rounds, it becomes the
374
00:21:01,300 --> 00:21:04,700
dream is always important but
the the metric start to become
375
00:21:04,700 --> 00:21:06,500
more and more and more
important.
376
00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:10,400
So it's like, doesn't really
matter at the proceed on that
377
00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:13,400
the seed and it can actually get
in your way because it makes the
378
00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:17,400
product not look as good as the
dream and then we get into your
379
00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:20,200
a and your B at the metrics
become more and more important.
380
00:21:20,300 --> 00:21:24,500
But anyways, I digress.
So we raised, we raised almost
381
00:21:24,500 --> 00:21:26,100
two million dollars of room
service.
382
00:21:26,500 --> 00:21:29,200
We had a bunch of really really
cool investors came on board
383
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:33,400
that I'm eternally grateful for
betting on us eventually.
384
00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:38,600
We decided that room service
wasn't didn't really, we never
385
00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:40,100
really found product-market fit
with it.
386
00:21:40,100 --> 00:21:41,600
After building it from.
A year.
387
00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:45,800
So my brother and I we decided
to pit it once again.
388
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:50,400
Um, and I'm a grown person if I
don't have anything to grow.
389
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:53,800
I get a little bit bored and I
didn't want to just like eat up
390
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:56,500
a salary and not have me be
building anything.
391
00:21:56,700 --> 00:21:59,800
So I let would rather continue
on with the pivot.
392
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:02,700
I believe a companies currently
called strange mood.
393
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:06,700
And I went on, I had one of my
best friend's was a co-founder
394
00:22:06,700 --> 00:22:09,200
room service and he's like, Kobe
should come help us build this.
395
00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:12,600
So I came on board with rooms
service which had really, really
396
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:17,600
obvious basic pmf and help them
grow that googly-eyed.
397
00:22:20,300 --> 00:22:24,200
Absolutely love this
similarities between your story
398
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:26,900
and the Silicon Valley show
Kobe.
399
00:22:26,900 --> 00:22:30,500
You should watch that show.
I mean, it is a must-have.
400
00:22:30,500 --> 00:22:32,700
The fact that you haven't seen,
it is insane at.
401
00:22:32,700 --> 00:22:36,200
This is literally exactly what
one of the character was saying.
402
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:39,700
Once you have the metrics, the
investors won't keep saying that
403
00:22:39,700 --> 00:22:42,200
it's not a good enough for us.
If you don't have the metrics
404
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:48,400
that potential is unlimited and
it's just, it's exactly that.
405
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:51,900
I remember, I forget wish which
investor exactly because like,
406
00:22:51,900 --> 00:22:56,300
yeah, we don't really invest in
like, three seed companies and
407
00:22:56,300 --> 00:23:00,900
it's like, They have a lake.
It takes it takes a while to
408
00:23:00,900 --> 00:23:04,000
build a good product that people
will invest product.
409
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,700
And there's like this, there's
this Gap in the middle between
410
00:23:09,100 --> 00:23:12,100
like having a really shitty
early-stage product and having
411
00:23:12,100 --> 00:23:14,600
something really polished and
until you have something polish,
412
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:17,000
it's hard to raise money on the
product.
413
00:23:17,100 --> 00:23:22,100
So like I it's, it's a
dichotomy.
414
00:23:22,100 --> 00:23:26,000
It's a hard problem to solve.
Honestly, this is epic.
415
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:29,600
I mean, first of all, Again, I
cannot stress enough.
416
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:33,100
How important the Silicon Valley
show is to every single person
417
00:23:33,100 --> 00:23:36,400
in this, Dark Worlds.
I keep advertising this show
418
00:23:36,900 --> 00:23:40,600
over and over again and I do
believe that is one of the best
419
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,900
shows for everyone who is
somehow involved in the startup
420
00:23:43,900 --> 00:23:45,300
Universe.
Because first of all, it is
421
00:23:45,300 --> 00:23:48,600
absolutely is secondly, it kind
of is true.
422
00:23:48,900 --> 00:23:52,600
It really is, there are so many
similarities they see between
423
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:55,500
real life and this show.
But anyways, back to the
424
00:23:55,500 --> 00:23:58,800
fundraising process and
specifically About how you have
425
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:02,000
managed to raise two million
dollars for product that didn't
426
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:05,600
really exist with no metrics and
how you have managed to tell the
427
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:07,700
story.
So, a lot of our users, of
428
00:24:07,700 --> 00:24:11,800
course, don't really have the
product Market fit or the
429
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:16,000
remaining product that they've
built out on Bubble or something
430
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,200
like that.
How can they tell a story in a
431
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:21,100
way that can get them two
million dollars, which hopefully
432
00:24:21,100 --> 00:24:25,200
can get them to a better product
and to hopefully product Market
433
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:29,900
fit?
So, you know, it's funny.
434
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:36,600
Okay, a couple things.
So, first of all, there's a lot
435
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:41,500
of pattern matching that goes on
investors, especially early
436
00:24:41,500 --> 00:24:44,800
stage, investors are looking for
a bunch of really specific
437
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:49,700
things.
So to begin with the early stage
438
00:24:49,700 --> 00:24:53,600
startup world is extremely
biased towards people who are
439
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:58,700
really good at building things.
My My, my little brother is a
440
00:24:58,708 --> 00:25:03,500
software engineer, and he worked
at segments, and he's like, very
441
00:25:03,500 --> 00:25:08,100
good at Building Products.
So, what investors look for,
442
00:25:08,100 --> 00:25:11,000
especially the early stage is,
like, first part is, who's on
443
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:12,500
the team.
And they have things that
444
00:25:12,500 --> 00:25:14,800
they're specifically looking
for, which is they want a team
445
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:19,100
of Founders who seem like they
can build really hard things and
446
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,700
we never really found pmf.
But my brother, Evan is
447
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:26,100
literally the most amazing
engineer I have ever met in my
448
00:25:26,100 --> 00:25:29,100
life.
He's able to go off and build
449
00:25:29,100 --> 00:25:31,600
something like room service,
which solves like cutting-edge
450
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,400
problems for conflict-free,
replicated data types as a
451
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:38,300
service that like are really,
really hard to solve.
452
00:25:39,300 --> 00:25:43,000
So that's the first thing is
like pattern, power part of it.
453
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:45,200
The pattern matching is they're
looking for specific type of
454
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:48,700
Founders part of it, which,
which is important.
455
00:25:48,700 --> 00:25:51,600
Like, maybe you're not like the
best software engineer in the
456
00:25:51,608 --> 00:25:55,700
world but they are looking for
people who can build things and
457
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,400
that's not Not that hard of a
skill set to do.
458
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:02,300
Like it's it is one of the
hardest lessons that it took me.
459
00:26:02,300 --> 00:26:07,000
I tried to not become a software
engineer for about 7 years, but
460
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,700
it's not that hard to learn how
to code and having just a basic
461
00:26:09,700 --> 00:26:12,700
understanding of how to build
things allows you to position
462
00:26:12,700 --> 00:26:20,500
yourself a lot better.
Second thing is a I'm I've
463
00:26:20,500 --> 00:26:24,100
written a little bit about this
but I'm a huge advocate that one
464
00:26:24,100 --> 00:26:27,800
of the clearest signs of product
Market fit is when you spam
465
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:29,900
people and they love you for it.
Yeah.
466
00:26:29,900 --> 00:26:33,000
And what I mean by this is like
if you send a cold email to
467
00:26:33,008 --> 00:26:35,800
someone and people are like, I
don't know how you got my email
468
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,700
address, but I freaking love you
for sending you information,
469
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:43,400
build.
Whatever it is that they what
470
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,600
you just told him about, and
this plays out like a ton of
471
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:50,000
different ways on it, plays out
through Facebook, As it plays
472
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,600
out through, people tweeting
about you on Twitter, it plays
473
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,800
out through cold email for room
service specifically.
474
00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,900
There's a nice man called Justin
and Justin tweeted about us on
475
00:26:59,900 --> 00:27:03,500
Twitter and at the time we were
like basically building this in
476
00:27:03,500 --> 00:27:06,600
stealth and we had this landing
page up, but like we weren't
477
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:10,300
really telling people, we were
doing it and it is went viral on
478
00:27:10,300 --> 00:27:15,300
Twitter like the he basically
launched it for us before we
479
00:27:15,300 --> 00:27:19,600
were ready for.
Um, and I think Like that is
480
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:22,100
like one of the clearest signs
that you're building something
481
00:27:22,100 --> 00:27:27,800
that it was worthy of being
built, is that like it just, it
482
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:30,500
has a net really, really high
engagement.
483
00:27:30,500 --> 00:27:33,700
Just naturally, we saw with
Quark saw with room service.
484
00:27:34,100 --> 00:27:43,000
Um so it went viral on Twitter
and then um the next step is um
485
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:48,900
creating moments of Leverage YC
does.
486
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,000
Really well built into YC,
right?
487
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:55,000
The concept of demo day of
putting Founders on a huge stage
488
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:58,600
in front of thousands of
investors and they don't do
489
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,100
that.
Just to help Founders raise
490
00:28:01,100 --> 00:28:03,500
money.
They do that to create leverage
491
00:28:03,500 --> 00:28:08,700
for Founder's is have a bunch of
investor conversations all at
492
00:28:08,700 --> 00:28:12,600
once and that's one of the
hardest things to do when you're
493
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:15,800
not going through an accelerator
is creating moments of Leverage
494
00:28:15,900 --> 00:28:20,200
and that's one of the reasons
why um You can combine
495
00:28:20,300 --> 00:28:23,100
pattern-matching.
So making yourself look like an
496
00:28:23,100 --> 00:28:26,500
investor or making yourself look
like a Founder, specifically a
497
00:28:26,500 --> 00:28:30,100
Founder that should be get
invested in from the tech world.
498
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,400
So like be like, I'm a Founder
on Twitter and Samm, you're a
499
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,100
Founder on LinkedIn and just
basically put that into the
500
00:28:36,100 --> 00:28:37,300
world.
The hey, I'm a Founder, I'm
501
00:28:37,300 --> 00:28:40,700
working on the startup and then
build something that people have
502
00:28:40,700 --> 00:28:44,200
a ton of Engagement with and
then launch it into the world.
503
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:46,900
So do your Twitter launched, do
your product hunt launch, do you
504
00:28:46,900 --> 00:28:49,600
Hacker News launch?
And as long as You get a little
505
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:51,600
bit of Engagement, you'll
actually get a bunch of
506
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:53,600
investors that start reaching
out to you.
507
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:58,500
And I think what a mistake that
a lot of people do is they just
508
00:28:58,500 --> 00:29:01,500
immediately start having those
conversations so people will
509
00:29:01,500 --> 00:29:03,800
reach out and then yeah, I'd
love to meet with you and then
510
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:07,000
they'll meet with the founder or
they'll meet with the VC and
511
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,800
they'll basically slowly burn
through all of these
512
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:15,800
relationships and what we did
instead was we told everyone
513
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,000
thank you so much for your
interest in investing in our
514
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:20,600
startup, we're actually I'm not
raising funds right now but we
515
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:22,300
will reach out to you.
The moment.
516
00:29:22,300 --> 00:29:25,800
We are.
So we built up basically this
517
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:30,200
wait list of investors that
wanted to talk to us and because
518
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:32,200
we weren't, we had already
burned through our demo day.
519
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:34,300
We didn't have another dominant.
So we built up all these
520
00:29:34,300 --> 00:29:37,700
investors and then we waited we
just push it out like a month or
521
00:29:37,700 --> 00:29:40,100
two.
And then we had conversations
522
00:29:40,100 --> 00:29:44,500
with all of them all at once.
And we were able to use that to
523
00:29:44,500 --> 00:29:47,500
create, basically our own mini
demo Day by creating leverage of
524
00:29:47,508 --> 00:29:52,200
people that we had built up.
And then that allowed us to get
525
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:55,300
our initial little bit of
traction in that round and then,
526
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:59,200
um, yeah, combination of all
that.
527
00:30:00,900 --> 00:30:04,400
Ultimately YC like definitely
did help a lot.
528
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:08,300
We got intro to some really
amazing investors through
529
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:09,800
people.
We met through I see.
530
00:30:11,300 --> 00:30:16,400
But yeah, perfect.
Yeah, I mean fomo is extremely
531
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:20,900
important fear of missing out is
the one of the number one Dragon
532
00:30:20,900 --> 00:30:24,400
factors for all investors.
Every single one is shitting
533
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:27,500
themselves about missing out on
an opportunity like investing
534
00:30:27,500 --> 00:30:30,500
slack or Discord or Zoom or any
of those.
535
00:30:30,700 --> 00:30:35,400
Those players that have made it
big and because there are tons
536
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:38,100
of stories about Investors
missing out on billion-dollar
537
00:30:38,100 --> 00:30:40,700
opportunities right there.
So if you can leverage that,
538
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:44,800
definitely definitely go for it
and stack up your meetings.
539
00:30:45,300 --> 00:30:48,800
If the investor wants to keep
talking for another 30 minutes
540
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:51,700
after your time is over, you
should just cut them short save.
541
00:30:51,700 --> 00:30:54,200
Sorry I have to go prepare for
another meet.
542
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:56,800
I have another meeting with
investor and fix a man's gotta
543
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:58,900
go.
But lovely talking to you we'll
544
00:30:58,900 --> 00:31:00,500
catch up later and discuss, you
know?
545
00:31:00,700 --> 00:31:05,500
The details.
So do that and make them make
546
00:31:05,500 --> 00:31:07,600
them move.
Otherwise investors just love
547
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:09,900
dragging out shit.
That's just what they do.
548
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:14,200
So on this note, go be you want
to say something?
549
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,400
Go and then we'll move on to the
very last question of today's
550
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:19,300
episode.
Yeah, literally.
551
00:31:19,300 --> 00:31:23,700
That is, um, if you talk to them
one at a time, one at a time,
552
00:31:23,900 --> 00:31:26,800
you you have no leverage to get
them to make engine.
553
00:31:27,100 --> 00:31:29,200
Yeah.
When you're talking to a bunch
554
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,900
of them all at once, They'll ask
you where are you in the
555
00:31:31,900 --> 00:31:34,400
fundraising process?
And you can say, oh well, I have
556
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:36,900
10 other meetings set up this
week and they're like, oh shit.
557
00:31:36,900 --> 00:31:41,500
Okay.
And it it creates it creates,
558
00:31:41,500 --> 00:31:43,700
leverage, to get them to make
decisions.
559
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,500
Absolutely, there are a bunch of
different strategies about
560
00:31:47,100 --> 00:31:48,800
doubling down on that.
Fear of missing out.
561
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:52,700
There is a way of slowly
increasing your valuation or the
562
00:31:52,700 --> 00:31:56,800
cap for your convertible notes
and that pushes the investor
563
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:58,700
further.
Even, you know, if they know
564
00:31:58,700 --> 00:32:01,200
that there are ten other
investors willing to talk to And
565
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:03,700
that if they don't invest.
Now, the next time they're going
566
00:32:03,700 --> 00:32:06,400
to talk to you, the valuation of
your company is literally going
567
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,800
to grow within a few days, they
will move.
568
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:14,500
Its so do that research.
It and of course, Shameless plug
569
00:32:14,500 --> 00:32:17,200
in here of our course.
Because that's exactly what I'm
570
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:21,400
talking about in the course of
reaching out to investors one.
571
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:25,500
And one figuring out how to
build that fomo explain those
572
00:32:25,500 --> 00:32:29,400
other strategies and how to
actually locate them from the
573
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:32,700
legal perspective as Well, on
this note, let's move on to the
574
00:32:32,700 --> 00:32:36,000
very last question.
So Kobe would do you want to do?
575
00:32:36,300 --> 00:32:38,600
No, wait, no.
I'm going to have to re-record
576
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,400
that last question.
No, wait, what do you want to
577
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:43,600
do?
All right, on this note, let's
578
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:45,800
move on to the very last
question of today's episode,
579
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:48,800
which is a call to action.
So Kobe, would you want to
580
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:51,400
listen to do as soon as this
episode is over?
581
00:32:53,100 --> 00:32:55,600
So, if you're interested in
fundraising, I would definitely
582
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:57,500
go and sign up for a
Constantine's.
583
00:32:57,500 --> 00:33:01,300
Course, I was going through a
bunch of these episodes, there's
584
00:33:01,300 --> 00:33:04,600
over 300 of them, which is just
an insane amount of knowledge
585
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:08,000
that's been accumulated.
I think that's really, really
586
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:10,000
cool.
I have to give some major props
587
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:16,300
to your content marketing here,
think 300, 300 episodes articles
588
00:33:16,300 --> 00:33:19,900
or anything like that is insane
accomplishment.
589
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:23,100
Um, and yeah, if you're
interested, Growth of marketing.
590
00:33:23,100 --> 00:33:26,200
I have a subset called channels
of growth go sign up.
591
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:29,300
It's join, you get all the
Articles or the most recent
592
00:33:29,300 --> 00:33:32,400
article for free, and it's like
six bucks a month if you want
593
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:34,800
access to all the content.
Yes.
594
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:38,300
And it is great personally,
subscribe to events, and
595
00:33:38,300 --> 00:33:42,000
personally, loving this stuff,
because I've actually discovered
596
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:45,000
quite a few tools for that sub
stack and one of my favorite
597
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,700
Discovery.
So far is a polo amazing tool
598
00:33:47,700 --> 00:33:52,100
11, it's going to imply going to
use it for both my day job at
599
00:33:52,300 --> 00:33:55,600
first base and for the side
project, specifically
600
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:59,700
distribution of the course and
helping other Founders actually
601
00:34:00,700 --> 00:34:04,400
spin out their affiliate
programs that waste so great
602
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:06,500
place.
If you're liking some resources,
603
00:34:06,500 --> 00:34:08,900
if you want some extra push
definitely go for it.
604
00:34:08,900 --> 00:34:11,400
You're going to find some good
good stuff there.
605
00:34:11,699 --> 00:34:14,000
And as always have a good day.
00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:07,800
They're releasing to fundraising
video a podcast about
2
00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:11,400
fundraising for early-stage
startups, the major rule that we
3
00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:14,600
follow here is no bullshit on
this podcast.
4
00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:17,800
No music to relax, you know,
advertisements of our sponsors.
5
00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:21,100
We only talk about fundraising
here and nothing else.
6
00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:24,500
So let's jump into the episode.
And today is a guest speaker.
7
00:00:24,500 --> 00:00:28,800
We have Kobe cornered, head of
growth, adds Rupa health, and
8
00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:31,400
also the founder.
ER, and this episode, we'll talk
9
00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:34,500
about Rupa Health, how they have
fund raised?
10
00:00:34,500 --> 00:00:38,400
How Kobe is managing their head
know that?
11
00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:40,300
Nope, never mind.
Hmm.
12
00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:43,000
We doing are we doing redoing
the whole enjoys?
13
00:00:43,700 --> 00:00:45,800
How Kobe is managing their
heads, seriously?
14
00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:49,800
All right, yeah, my defense in
my defense.
15
00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:54,700
I'll see them running a little
bit low sleep, but hopefully
16
00:00:54,700 --> 00:00:59,400
second run is gonna go a little
bit better as many times as you
17
00:00:59,408 --> 00:01:00,800
want, man.
No rested.
18
00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:03,800
All right, perfect.
Hmm.
19
00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:07,300
All right so I can try and today
as a guest speaker will have
20
00:01:07,300 --> 00:01:10,500
copy convert head of growth at
rubra health and also the
21
00:01:10,500 --> 00:01:13,900
founder and this episode will
mostly talk about, what does it
22
00:01:13,900 --> 00:01:16,800
mean to be the head of growth?
How to actually group companies?
23
00:01:16,900 --> 00:01:20,700
What does it imply on the daily
basis and how founders of
24
00:01:20,700 --> 00:01:23,300
smaller companies that have not
raised hundreds of millions
25
00:01:23,300 --> 00:01:26,400
dollars?
Can actually hire heads of
26
00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:31,000
growth or higher growth managers
so Colby Let's kick it off by
27
00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:34,100
you giving us some background on
yourself and on Rupa Health to
28
00:01:34,100 --> 00:01:36,200
get started.
Absolutely.
29
00:01:36,500 --> 00:01:38,800
So hi.
My name's Coby and I run growth,
30
00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:42,000
a triple Health.
Um, what should I say?
31
00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:43,900
I don't know.
It's been a really fun journey.
32
00:01:43,900 --> 00:01:46,900
I was able to come in as the
first growth marketing higher
33
00:01:46,900 --> 00:01:50,400
out Rupa and it was really
fascinating just being able to
34
00:01:50,900 --> 00:01:54,600
just build up the team from
ground up and then watch as Rupa
35
00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:57,100
has grown over time.
We went from a twenty million
36
00:01:57,100 --> 00:01:59,800
dollar seed stage valuation to
we gesture.
37
00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:03,300
Announced 110 million dollars
series evaluation.
38
00:02:03,300 --> 00:02:04,900
We raised about 20 million
dollars.
39
00:02:06,300 --> 00:02:09,900
And personally I have about 10
years of experience running
40
00:02:09,900 --> 00:02:12,900
growth and marketing campaigns.
I've worked on campaigns up to
41
00:02:12,900 --> 00:02:17,000
five million dollars a month and
previously, YC alumni ran a
42
00:02:17,008 --> 00:02:22,100
marketing agency for four years
was National National
43
00:02:22,100 --> 00:02:26,000
advertising director for you as
mortgage Corporation and of
44
00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:27,600
done.
A lot of fun growth and
45
00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:30,300
marketing work over my my days.
Nice.
46
00:02:30,300 --> 00:02:33,400
Yeah, it sounds pretty fun.
Running campaigns of 5 million
47
00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:36,400
per month, that is quite
impressive and we're definitely
48
00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:38,800
going to touch on to that but a
little bit later first things
49
00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:41,200
first.
How does your day-to-day look
50
00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:42,800
like?
Because girl, with managers,
51
00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:45,400
they do a ton, a ton of
different stuff in.
52
00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:49,300
Sometimes is quite a bit of a
struggle to describe and you may
53
00:02:49,300 --> 00:02:54,500
view onto that in one of your
posts on sub stack explaining
54
00:02:54,500 --> 00:02:57,600
what you actually do and how to
explain to other people would
55
00:02:58,100 --> 00:02:59,600
has of growth.
Do so good.
56
00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:02,700
We can Explain to our listeners
would do you do as the head of
57
00:03:02,700 --> 00:03:07,900
go that route but specifically.
Yeah, so my job is changed
58
00:03:07,900 --> 00:03:12,300
drastically from when I first
came on to where it is now and
59
00:03:12,300 --> 00:03:16,300
even where it is now, it's
evolving, really really rapidly.
60
00:03:17,100 --> 00:03:22,900
So when I first started, I was
basically a one-man show and
61
00:03:22,900 --> 00:03:26,200
with a very, very broad mandates
of growing the company.
62
00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:30,000
And I think those broad mandate
is one of the reasons why why
63
00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:33,300
the growth teams between
organizations vary.
64
00:03:33,300 --> 00:03:37,500
So drastically is like you have
like the Facebook OG growth
65
00:03:37,500 --> 00:03:40,100
team, where it's very engineer,
and p.m. heavy.
66
00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:43,900
Ours is definitely focused more
on demand gen although
67
00:03:43,900 --> 00:03:47,400
occasionally I do get to do some
fun stuff working with them the
68
00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:50,600
product.
So we do a lot of Partnerships,
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a lot of marketing across
Facebook and Google.
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We also handle the sales.
So I built out our onboarding
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management team and then hand
that off to customers.
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It's currently building out an
SDR team is one unique thing
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about Rupa is our education,
team runs underneath of growth
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as well.
So we do a lot of live classes.
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We have one coming up.
We have like 700 doctors that
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are gonna be on it which is
really awesome.
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And then yeah basically it's a
really really broad mandate um
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at the start we did a lot of
stuff that was more
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operationally focused as well.
So like how do we like Hire
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engineers and create a team that
like, really good Engineers.
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We want to come.
So I worked really closely with
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a good friend of mine Ben and
our co-founder to be able to,
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like, build up our engineers and
run the hiring process.
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And they kind of have that
fleshed out now, which is
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awesome.
So, I've moved into other
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things.
Like, how do we make sure we're
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working with legal to make sure
our margins are maximized in a
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way that make legal sense for
our company, and bunch of fun
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stuff like that, right?
So, From the description, your
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job sounds like the VP of sales
right there.
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00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:08,100
What is the major difference
between you and VP of sales?
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00:05:09,900 --> 00:05:16,200
So I think a VP of sales that
can get kind of broken down into
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two like two categories is if
you're if you're a VP of sales
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and you're in a sales LED
organization.
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00:05:22,500 --> 00:05:27,500
Usually your primary primary
channel is like sales so when I
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say that I mean it's like it's
outbound cold calling or like
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email sequencing like Str type
stuff, it's going to events and
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like showing up the sales people
at conferences.
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00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:42,500
But then there's also this like
sales category or work.
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That's like okay.
If you have inbound people, how
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do you convert those people to
paint customers.
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00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:50,900
So like actually explaining
complicated deals to people.
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And all that's really fun and
fine, but there's not usually a
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ton of operational components to
it and there's not usually a ton
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of once the sale happens, the
job ends.
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00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:07,100
And I think that's one of the
coolest things about growth is
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that the Concord job of growth,
never ends at any point in the
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users life cycle.
So we use the AAE our framework,
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so acquisition activation
engagement and retention.
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So how do we acquire as many
users?
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As we can, how do we activate
those users?
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Get them to start placing orders
and then how do we increase
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their engagement?
So once our users are en route,
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but how do we get them to use
our product more?
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How do we get them to place more
orders?
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00:06:36,300 --> 00:06:41,000
And then we also, Very, very
heavily focused on retention of
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00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:43,100
how do we make sure that those
people never leave us?
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00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:46,400
Because if we're, like
constantly turning users,
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because they've had a bad
experience, or there's something
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00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:51,700
within the product that they
don't like, or something within
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00:06:51,700 --> 00:06:55,500
the product that's missing as
you get bigger, you're like
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basically putting people on the
top, which is what a VP of sales
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00:06:58,500 --> 00:07:00,400
might do.
But then you're also losing
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00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:02,800
people at the bottom that are
like, falling out of your
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bucket.
So it's a lot more Broad in the
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mandates of what we get to do.
And what we get to work with,
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00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:14,300
right?
So it sounds like being big head
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00:07:14,300 --> 00:07:16,400
of growth.
It's more fun than being the VP
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of sales.
All right, let's see how it is.
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00:07:20,100 --> 00:07:22,500
Okay.
All right, so let's let's touch
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on two very interesting subject,
which you mentioned which is
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building out the SD our team.
This is a very, very interesting
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subject for a lot of our
listeners because a big portion
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00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:35,000
of them are just getting into
the stage of tons and tons of
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our bound to generate this
initial growth and to actually
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start creating On the inbound,
eventually.
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But at this point, the majority
of them are at the stage where
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they have to actually reach out
to the potential customers in
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00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:47,300
order to, you know, get a foot
in the door.
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00:07:47,300 --> 00:07:49,300
They don't have that much of
inbound.
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00:07:49,500 --> 00:07:56,200
So let's talk about hiring sdrs.
First of all, what is The major
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problem for you in this process
of finding you as the ours,
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where are you looking for them?
Are you looking exclusively in
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the u.s. because rubra health is
based in the US?
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Or are you looking all over the
world?
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00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:09,400
Let's start with that one.
Yeah.
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So we're looking in the US.
I don't have any super major
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preference about location where
we're looking for.
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Its SDR is probably the wrong
word.
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00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:27,500
We're looking for people who are
really, really good at Cold
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sales and can almost whole life
cycle.
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Usually Str, it's more like an
appointment setting roll.
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00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:33,799
Yeah.
They're, they're like actually
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owning the whole sales process
group is a funny industry
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because We make a lot of money
per user, but there's not that
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many of them, some, some Growth
work, like I mentioned before,
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like working on a campaign of
five million dollars a month.
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00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:52,400
That's really cool.
Rupa is really cool because it's
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more about how do you target an
audience?
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That's really hard to Target.
So with that logic, where we
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want to build up a tiny sales,
team of really, really good
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sales.
People that are able to go out
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and basically work through our
be with like a fine-tooth comb
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more than you could do it, like
Facebook ads, for example.
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Yeah.
Look in the u.s. looking for
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anyone who is like just super,
super killer a sales, we have a
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head of practitioner
Partnerships called Adrienne and
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he is it's basically our
outbound headed outbound sales
169
00:09:28,300 --> 00:09:31,000
role.
So he, he's been running an
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experiment for the last two
months basically, testing the
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waters to see what the results
of this role might look.
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Like if we hired someone to do
it full time and yeah, we had
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really good results, so far.
So the next step is we ran our
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experiment, the experiment
determines that this might
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actually be super profitable for
us.
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So next step is go higher maybe
one or two people full-time and
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slowly build up from that nice.
That is very interesting.
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Super excited to see how that
goes and please keep me.
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Posted the next time we're going
to talk is probably going to be
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windy episode is going to go
live.
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So I'm pretty Uh sure you're
going to have some updates on
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that but for now quick question
about targeting people who are
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very hard to start it.
But as a very big pain point
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over a lot of our listeners
because quite a few of them are
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actually in either deep tack or
not.
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I forgot the word for it.
The big companies, how do you
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call the big companies?
Could we help me out here like,
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big corporations?
Like what do you mean?
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Yes, big corporations, what do
you call it?
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There, there's a term for them.
I'm not sure enterprise
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Enterprise sales enter politics,
that's what I was looking for
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entry price.
So a lot of our listeners are
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actually working with
Enterprises and quite a few of
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them are not like professional
professional salespeople, or at
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least they're not specialized
and Enterprise sales and
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targeting through Facebook ads.
That is just not a way to go
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there.
So, for you personally for your
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00:11:01,300 --> 00:11:04,200
team, how do you, how do you
figure out how to find those,
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you know, hard to Target people?
Yeah.
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So for us we basically went out
and anyone, we scraped our whole
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industry is the okay.
This way as we basically went
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through Google and we found any
practitioners in the United
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States that identified
themselves as functional
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medicine and then we scraped all
of their domain names and then
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we put them in a big sell sheet
and then we ran that through
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Hunter I/O and fan Ghostbuster.
Okay, and Buster and synbuster,
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one of the two.
Anyways, we were able to pull
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out all of their contact info
from those two things and we
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were able to create a database
of basically, every single
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practitioner that had a digital
presidents within the United
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States with the contact
information.
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And then once we have that
contact information, we're able
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to do a bunch of stuff with
that.
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We re and we actually were able
to create Facebook and Google
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audiences off of that to run ads
towards them.
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We had their Dressed.
So we are able to cold call
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them.
This is one of the reasons why
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we want to hire an outbound
sales team is because now we're
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able to like go having a human
work.
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The leads is a much stronger
impression than just like hats
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or but yeah it's it's Unique for
us just the way we did.
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It was very unique to our
industry but there's lots of
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really cool ways to Target
people with my sub sack.
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I wanted to Target everyone in
the United States.
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Who has growth in their title.
So I was able to use Apollo and
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basically just pull out all that
information, Founders that want
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to Target like startups, you
could pretty easily go on, like
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product hunt and Hacker News and
just like scrape.
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The, the list every day of
everyone who watches and then
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run that through similar tools
like Hunter.
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I owe it.
We live in this, like, really
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cool period of time.
Where as long as you have the
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domain name, you're able to get
all the contact.
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And so that's, you know, Mein
name and basically just send
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them cold emails and you can get
really high open rates.
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It's crazy.
Absolutely!
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That is very true and that is
how I met Toby and that is how I
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00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:20,700
subscribe to Hibbs.
Self stack eventually became the
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paid subscribers.
Yeah, I mean it works.
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God dammit?
That's that's why I'm Barry.
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So on this note I'm gonna last
question about sales and then
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we're going to go back to
actually talking about
243
00:13:32,700 --> 00:13:35,800
fundraising.
But one question I had about
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seals here.
Is it Escape my mind?
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I'm going to try to grab it.
It's gone.
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No worries.
That is unfortunate.
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Oh well.
Oh well, oh, scraping that's the
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question.
I had scraping was personally.
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So I personally love that
approach.
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I've done it quite a few times
but scraping was always the hard
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part for me.
I always struggle with it.
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I spent hours and hours, find
new tools because some of them
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get banned.
And what you'll do you use and
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00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:09,400
how you know, how frequently
does it get banned for scraping
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00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:13,900
specifically.
Yeah, so there's Over ways to do
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00:14:13,900 --> 00:14:17,300
it.
I always just hire someone to do
257
00:14:17,300 --> 00:14:18,900
it on.
There are a lot of really good
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00:14:18,900 --> 00:14:22,600
people on up work who have
awesome python scrape, Python
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00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:30,800
scripts to like, go and do it.
If you are a programmer lie, if
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00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:34,300
you're a programmer inhibiting
level of programmability, it's
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00:14:34,300 --> 00:14:37,800
actually not that hard to build
a lot of trails that are like
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00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:40,400
how to build a python scraper
and like a couple hours.
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00:14:41,500 --> 00:14:44,500
Also, if you have access to Any
engineering resources on your
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00:14:44,500 --> 00:14:47,800
growth team usually, they'll be
able to help you out as well.
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Perfect.
And how much would that cost to
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00:14:51,100 --> 00:14:53,300
hire someone?
Just so that everyone is on the
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00:14:53,300 --> 00:14:55,900
same page with their
expectations on how much they're
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00:14:55,900 --> 00:14:59,600
going to spend on this whole
thing on up work, you we usually
269
00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:02,400
pay anywhere between like 1 cent
25 cents per record.
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00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:04,000
Okay?
So it's four record,
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00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:07,100
interesting, good to know.
All right, perfect.
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00:15:07,100 --> 00:15:10,100
And that's, he's, let's move on
and talk about major subject
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00:15:10,100 --> 00:15:13,100
over the entire podcast, which
is actually fundraising now A
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00:15:13,100 --> 00:15:16,700
worker growth and sales.
Let's talk about the company
275
00:15:16,700 --> 00:15:20,100
that you personally ran.
So you have mentioned, to me,
276
00:15:20,100 --> 00:15:23,300
that your company actually got
into Y combinator, and then you
277
00:15:23,300 --> 00:15:27,000
have right after getting out of
Y, combinator, work shortly
278
00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:31,000
after you have pivoted and then
raise money for it, specifically
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00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:33,000
to million dollars and then you
have to it again.
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00:15:33,300 --> 00:15:36,600
So can you briefly?
Tell us this very, very
281
00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:40,200
interesting story and let's
start with you getting into y
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00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:43,700
combinator, Yeah, absolutely.
Um, okay.
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00:15:43,700 --> 00:15:47,900
So it really started with my
little brother.
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00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:52,000
Honestly, my little brother
graduated school and went out to
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00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:54,900
work at segments and in San
Francisco.
286
00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:59,000
And at the time I was still
working at us mortgage and my
287
00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:01,300
brother was like, you should
quit your job and sell your
288
00:16:01,300 --> 00:16:04,800
house and should move out to San
Francisco and I was like, that
289
00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:07,000
sounds like an excellent.
Excellent idea.
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00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:10,500
A little brother, let's do that.
So I quit my job and sell.
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00:16:10,500 --> 00:16:14,000
I sell my house.
I moved out to SF and about six
292
00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:18,000
weeks after I get into San
Francisco, Evan applies for y
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00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:20,900
combinator and he's like, Kobe.
I applied for this, you can't
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00:16:20,900 --> 00:16:23,600
tell anybody.
And I put you down as my
295
00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:25,000
co-founder and I'm like, oh
shit.
296
00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:30,600
Okay, so we get called, we get
called for an interview and, um,
297
00:16:31,100 --> 00:16:33,400
it's hilarious.
Like we go down, we go down
298
00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:37,400
there and we talked to the
partners, and it's there like 10
299
00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:40,700
minutes long so you can
directly, we get out of the
300
00:16:40,700 --> 00:16:42,400
thing.
And Unlike collapses, on the
301
00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:46,000
couch.
And anyways, we get the call
302
00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:48,100
later that we get in and I'm
like shit.
303
00:16:48,100 --> 00:16:49,400
Now, I have to quit my job
again.
304
00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:55,600
Um, so we got in as a company
called cork which was cognitive
305
00:16:55,600 --> 00:17:01,900
behavioral therapy on your phone
and the the product was really
306
00:17:01,900 --> 00:17:05,099
cool people.
Really liked it, I think therapy
307
00:17:05,099 --> 00:17:07,599
and mental health in general,
kind of has a fatal flaw of
308
00:17:07,599 --> 00:17:10,200
everyone's really hyped about
it, but nobody wants to do their
309
00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:14,099
therapy exercises.
Has, um, so we were able to grow
310
00:17:14,099 --> 00:17:17,200
the app and we were able to get
a lot of like initial traction
311
00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:20,500
with it.
Even even our Apple search ads
312
00:17:20,500 --> 00:17:24,099
had a three hundred percent ROI
on them, so it was growing
313
00:17:24,099 --> 00:17:30,600
really possibly the issue.
Was that after 30 days, people's
314
00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:34,100
daily usage was that even though
they're paying us money, the
315
00:17:34,100 --> 00:17:37,400
daily usage of the product was
like, less than 1%.
316
00:17:37,700 --> 00:17:42,600
So we were, we were in this like
dilemma of We got into YC with
317
00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:46,000
this product and the product was
growing and it was very
318
00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:49,400
profitable but nobody actually
used it.
319
00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:52,500
Like, we were basically just
making money off of people not
320
00:17:52,500 --> 00:17:55,000
cancelling their subscriptions
and like feeling bad about
321
00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:56,300
canceling, their mental health
app.
322
00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:00,800
So we went, we went through with
you this.
323
00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:06,000
We we did this for demo day and
we raised like a little bit of
324
00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:08,100
money.
I think like, 100 200 case
325
00:18:08,100 --> 00:18:11,100
something like that, but
ultimately like there wasn't
326
00:18:11,100 --> 00:18:13,200
really Real product Market fit.
We're just really good at
327
00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:18,100
selling shit.
Um, so we decided to Pivot and
328
00:18:18,100 --> 00:18:22,900
we pivoted the company into a
company called room, service and
329
00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:26,300
room service was a conflict,
free replicated data type as a
330
00:18:26,300 --> 00:18:28,600
service.
So if you've ever used figma or
331
00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:32,400
word doc or any product where
multiple people can collaborate
332
00:18:32,500 --> 00:18:36,300
on it on the same time that
piece of software that lets
333
00:18:36,300 --> 00:18:38,900
multiple people use it.
At the same time is actually
334
00:18:38,900 --> 00:18:42,000
extremely complicated to build.
Google.
335
00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:44,600
It takes like a team of
Engineers they spent millions of
336
00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:47,900
dollars on their system that
allowed multiple people to use
337
00:18:47,900 --> 00:18:50,000
it.
So we basically made that same
338
00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:54,900
system and we like let other
people use it within like 15
339
00:18:54,900 --> 00:18:57,400
minutes instead of having to
spend like a year building this
340
00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:01,000
thing.
Um, so that is really
341
00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:06,000
interesting because I think it
highlights one of the really
342
00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:10,300
interesting problems of early
like fundraising for early-stage
343
00:19:10,300 --> 00:19:14,200
startups.
So when we raise money for this,
344
00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:17,300
we had basically, we didn't have
really a working product.
345
00:19:17,300 --> 00:19:23,100
We have a working prototype and
we had no traction and compare
346
00:19:23,100 --> 00:19:25,800
this to court.
For example, which we had a
347
00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:30,000
working product, we had
traction, we had Revenue, we had
348
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:33,200
revenue, and we had tons of
users that loved it.
349
00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:38,400
And when we raise money for room
service, it was drastically
350
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:40,500
easier.
Like, oh my gosh, it was so much
351
00:19:40,500 --> 00:19:42,400
easier to raise money.
For room service than it was for
352
00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:46,000
court, even though, like, we're
raising money with, with no
353
00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:49,100
product and no user, no real
project, no users.
354
00:19:49,900 --> 00:19:54,300
Um, and I think it's one of the
most interesting things is that
355
00:19:54,300 --> 00:19:57,800
like when you're raising really
early-stage funds, so much of
356
00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:03,400
the Rays is predicated around
the vision and the team we were
357
00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:07,000
we were able to sell the vision
of like, look at this really
358
00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:09,800
hard problem that were solving
and look at all of these really
359
00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:11,500
amazing collaborative.
Addicts.
360
00:20:11,500 --> 00:20:13,800
And if we can build a thing
here, we're going to be able to
361
00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:19,300
make this like really, really
huge and rooms and cork on the
362
00:20:19,308 --> 00:20:21,300
other hand was, like, kind of
stuck in the mud.
363
00:20:22,100 --> 00:20:24,400
And what I mean by that is,
like, once you start having
364
00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:28,600
metrics, the people start,
looking at the metrics, but we
365
00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:31,300
will have an Ethics people.
Just look at the product in the
366
00:20:31,308 --> 00:20:32,400
dream.
God.
367
00:20:32,900 --> 00:20:36,500
And I think this is one of the
reasons why you see so many
368
00:20:36,500 --> 00:20:39,800
startups are like, we just raise
this really huge seed round of
369
00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:43,000
this really huge precede.
You look at them, but they don't
370
00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:47,800
even have a product, they have
no users and it's a, it's a real
371
00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:51,800
thing is when you really early
stage so much of the raised
372
00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:56,000
starts to revolve around the
dream that you're selling.
373
00:20:56,500 --> 00:21:01,300
And as you as you go through
your rounds, it becomes the
374
00:21:01,300 --> 00:21:04,700
dream is always important but
the the metric start to become
375
00:21:04,700 --> 00:21:06,500
more and more and more
important.
376
00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:10,400
So it's like, doesn't really
matter at the proceed on that
377
00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:13,400
the seed and it can actually get
in your way because it makes the
378
00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:17,400
product not look as good as the
dream and then we get into your
379
00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:20,200
a and your B at the metrics
become more and more important.
380
00:21:20,300 --> 00:21:24,500
But anyways, I digress.
So we raised, we raised almost
381
00:21:24,500 --> 00:21:26,100
two million dollars of room
service.
382
00:21:26,500 --> 00:21:29,200
We had a bunch of really really
cool investors came on board
383
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:33,400
that I'm eternally grateful for
betting on us eventually.
384
00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:38,600
We decided that room service
wasn't didn't really, we never
385
00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:40,100
really found product-market fit
with it.
386
00:21:40,100 --> 00:21:41,600
After building it from.
A year.
387
00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:45,800
So my brother and I we decided
to pit it once again.
388
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:50,400
Um, and I'm a grown person if I
don't have anything to grow.
389
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:53,800
I get a little bit bored and I
didn't want to just like eat up
390
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:56,500
a salary and not have me be
building anything.
391
00:21:56,700 --> 00:21:59,800
So I let would rather continue
on with the pivot.
392
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:02,700
I believe a companies currently
called strange mood.
393
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:06,700
And I went on, I had one of my
best friend's was a co-founder
394
00:22:06,700 --> 00:22:09,200
room service and he's like, Kobe
should come help us build this.
395
00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:12,600
So I came on board with rooms
service which had really, really
396
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:17,600
obvious basic pmf and help them
grow that googly-eyed.
397
00:22:20,300 --> 00:22:24,200
Absolutely love this
similarities between your story
398
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:26,900
and the Silicon Valley show
Kobe.
399
00:22:26,900 --> 00:22:30,500
You should watch that show.
I mean, it is a must-have.
400
00:22:30,500 --> 00:22:32,700
The fact that you haven't seen,
it is insane at.
401
00:22:32,700 --> 00:22:36,200
This is literally exactly what
one of the character was saying.
402
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:39,700
Once you have the metrics, the
investors won't keep saying that
403
00:22:39,700 --> 00:22:42,200
it's not a good enough for us.
If you don't have the metrics
404
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:48,400
that potential is unlimited and
it's just, it's exactly that.
405
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:51,900
I remember, I forget wish which
investor exactly because like,
406
00:22:51,900 --> 00:22:56,300
yeah, we don't really invest in
like, three seed companies and
407
00:22:56,300 --> 00:23:00,900
it's like, They have a lake.
It takes it takes a while to
408
00:23:00,900 --> 00:23:04,000
build a good product that people
will invest product.
409
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,700
And there's like this, there's
this Gap in the middle between
410
00:23:09,100 --> 00:23:12,100
like having a really shitty
early-stage product and having
411
00:23:12,100 --> 00:23:14,600
something really polished and
until you have something polish,
412
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:17,000
it's hard to raise money on the
product.
413
00:23:17,100 --> 00:23:22,100
So like I it's, it's a
dichotomy.
414
00:23:22,100 --> 00:23:26,000
It's a hard problem to solve.
Honestly, this is epic.
415
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:29,600
I mean, first of all, Again, I
cannot stress enough.
416
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:33,100
How important the Silicon Valley
show is to every single person
417
00:23:33,100 --> 00:23:36,400
in this, Dark Worlds.
I keep advertising this show
418
00:23:36,900 --> 00:23:40,600
over and over again and I do
believe that is one of the best
419
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,900
shows for everyone who is
somehow involved in the startup
420
00:23:43,900 --> 00:23:45,300
Universe.
Because first of all, it is
421
00:23:45,300 --> 00:23:48,600
absolutely is secondly, it kind
of is true.
422
00:23:48,900 --> 00:23:52,600
It really is, there are so many
similarities they see between
423
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:55,500
real life and this show.
But anyways, back to the
424
00:23:55,500 --> 00:23:58,800
fundraising process and
specifically About how you have
425
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:02,000
managed to raise two million
dollars for product that didn't
426
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:05,600
really exist with no metrics and
how you have managed to tell the
427
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:07,700
story.
So, a lot of our users, of
428
00:24:07,700 --> 00:24:11,800
course, don't really have the
product Market fit or the
429
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:16,000
remaining product that they've
built out on Bubble or something
430
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,200
like that.
How can they tell a story in a
431
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:21,100
way that can get them two
million dollars, which hopefully
432
00:24:21,100 --> 00:24:25,200
can get them to a better product
and to hopefully product Market
433
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:29,900
fit?
So, you know, it's funny.
434
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:36,600
Okay, a couple things.
So, first of all, there's a lot
435
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:41,500
of pattern matching that goes on
investors, especially early
436
00:24:41,500 --> 00:24:44,800
stage, investors are looking for
a bunch of really specific
437
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:49,700
things.
So to begin with the early stage
438
00:24:49,700 --> 00:24:53,600
startup world is extremely
biased towards people who are
439
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:58,700
really good at building things.
My My, my little brother is a
440
00:24:58,708 --> 00:25:03,500
software engineer, and he worked
at segments, and he's like, very
441
00:25:03,500 --> 00:25:08,100
good at Building Products.
So, what investors look for,
442
00:25:08,100 --> 00:25:11,000
especially the early stage is,
like, first part is, who's on
443
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:12,500
the team.
And they have things that
444
00:25:12,500 --> 00:25:14,800
they're specifically looking
for, which is they want a team
445
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:19,100
of Founders who seem like they
can build really hard things and
446
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,700
we never really found pmf.
But my brother, Evan is
447
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:26,100
literally the most amazing
engineer I have ever met in my
448
00:25:26,100 --> 00:25:29,100
life.
He's able to go off and build
449
00:25:29,100 --> 00:25:31,600
something like room service,
which solves like cutting-edge
450
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,400
problems for conflict-free,
replicated data types as a
451
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:38,300
service that like are really,
really hard to solve.
452
00:25:39,300 --> 00:25:43,000
So that's the first thing is
like pattern, power part of it.
453
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:45,200
The pattern matching is they're
looking for specific type of
454
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:48,700
Founders part of it, which,
which is important.
455
00:25:48,700 --> 00:25:51,600
Like, maybe you're not like the
best software engineer in the
456
00:25:51,608 --> 00:25:55,700
world but they are looking for
people who can build things and
457
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,400
that's not Not that hard of a
skill set to do.
458
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:02,300
Like it's it is one of the
hardest lessons that it took me.
459
00:26:02,300 --> 00:26:07,000
I tried to not become a software
engineer for about 7 years, but
460
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,700
it's not that hard to learn how
to code and having just a basic
461
00:26:09,700 --> 00:26:12,700
understanding of how to build
things allows you to position
462
00:26:12,700 --> 00:26:20,500
yourself a lot better.
Second thing is a I'm I've
463
00:26:20,500 --> 00:26:24,100
written a little bit about this
but I'm a huge advocate that one
464
00:26:24,100 --> 00:26:27,800
of the clearest signs of product
Market fit is when you spam
465
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:29,900
people and they love you for it.
Yeah.
466
00:26:29,900 --> 00:26:33,000
And what I mean by this is like
if you send a cold email to
467
00:26:33,008 --> 00:26:35,800
someone and people are like, I
don't know how you got my email
468
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,700
address, but I freaking love you
for sending you information,
469
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:43,400
build.
Whatever it is that they what
470
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,600
you just told him about, and
this plays out like a ton of
471
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:50,000
different ways on it, plays out
through Facebook, As it plays
472
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,600
out through, people tweeting
about you on Twitter, it plays
473
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,800
out through cold email for room
service specifically.
474
00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,900
There's a nice man called Justin
and Justin tweeted about us on
475
00:26:59,900 --> 00:27:03,500
Twitter and at the time we were
like basically building this in
476
00:27:03,500 --> 00:27:06,600
stealth and we had this landing
page up, but like we weren't
477
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:10,300
really telling people, we were
doing it and it is went viral on
478
00:27:10,300 --> 00:27:15,300
Twitter like the he basically
launched it for us before we
479
00:27:15,300 --> 00:27:19,600
were ready for.
Um, and I think Like that is
480
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:22,100
like one of the clearest signs
that you're building something
481
00:27:22,100 --> 00:27:27,800
that it was worthy of being
built, is that like it just, it
482
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:30,500
has a net really, really high
engagement.
483
00:27:30,500 --> 00:27:33,700
Just naturally, we saw with
Quark saw with room service.
484
00:27:34,100 --> 00:27:43,000
Um so it went viral on Twitter
and then um the next step is um
485
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:48,900
creating moments of Leverage YC
does.
486
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,000
Really well built into YC,
right?
487
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:55,000
The concept of demo day of
putting Founders on a huge stage
488
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:58,600
in front of thousands of
investors and they don't do
489
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,100
that.
Just to help Founders raise
490
00:28:01,100 --> 00:28:03,500
money.
They do that to create leverage
491
00:28:03,500 --> 00:28:08,700
for Founder's is have a bunch of
investor conversations all at
492
00:28:08,700 --> 00:28:12,600
once and that's one of the
hardest things to do when you're
493
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:15,800
not going through an accelerator
is creating moments of Leverage
494
00:28:15,900 --> 00:28:20,200
and that's one of the reasons
why um You can combine
495
00:28:20,300 --> 00:28:23,100
pattern-matching.
So making yourself look like an
496
00:28:23,100 --> 00:28:26,500
investor or making yourself look
like a Founder, specifically a
497
00:28:26,500 --> 00:28:30,100
Founder that should be get
invested in from the tech world.
498
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,400
So like be like, I'm a Founder
on Twitter and Samm, you're a
499
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,100
Founder on LinkedIn and just
basically put that into the
500
00:28:36,100 --> 00:28:37,300
world.
The hey, I'm a Founder, I'm
501
00:28:37,300 --> 00:28:40,700
working on the startup and then
build something that people have
502
00:28:40,700 --> 00:28:44,200
a ton of Engagement with and
then launch it into the world.
503
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:46,900
So do your Twitter launched, do
your product hunt launch, do you
504
00:28:46,900 --> 00:28:49,600
Hacker News launch?
And as long as You get a little
505
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:51,600
bit of Engagement, you'll
actually get a bunch of
506
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:53,600
investors that start reaching
out to you.
507
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:58,500
And I think what a mistake that
a lot of people do is they just
508
00:28:58,500 --> 00:29:01,500
immediately start having those
conversations so people will
509
00:29:01,500 --> 00:29:03,800
reach out and then yeah, I'd
love to meet with you and then
510
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:07,000
they'll meet with the founder or
they'll meet with the VC and
511
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,800
they'll basically slowly burn
through all of these
512
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:15,800
relationships and what we did
instead was we told everyone
513
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,000
thank you so much for your
interest in investing in our
514
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:20,600
startup, we're actually I'm not
raising funds right now but we
515
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:22,300
will reach out to you.
The moment.
516
00:29:22,300 --> 00:29:25,800
We are.
So we built up basically this
517
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:30,200
wait list of investors that
wanted to talk to us and because
518
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:32,200
we weren't, we had already
burned through our demo day.
519
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:34,300
We didn't have another dominant.
So we built up all these
520
00:29:34,300 --> 00:29:37,700
investors and then we waited we
just push it out like a month or
521
00:29:37,700 --> 00:29:40,100
two.
And then we had conversations
522
00:29:40,100 --> 00:29:44,500
with all of them all at once.
And we were able to use that to
523
00:29:44,500 --> 00:29:47,500
create, basically our own mini
demo Day by creating leverage of
524
00:29:47,508 --> 00:29:52,200
people that we had built up.
And then that allowed us to get
525
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:55,300
our initial little bit of
traction in that round and then,
526
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:59,200
um, yeah, combination of all
that.
527
00:30:00,900 --> 00:30:04,400
Ultimately YC like definitely
did help a lot.
528
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:08,300
We got intro to some really
amazing investors through
529
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:09,800
people.
We met through I see.
530
00:30:11,300 --> 00:30:16,400
But yeah, perfect.
Yeah, I mean fomo is extremely
531
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:20,900
important fear of missing out is
the one of the number one Dragon
532
00:30:20,900 --> 00:30:24,400
factors for all investors.
Every single one is shitting
533
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:27,500
themselves about missing out on
an opportunity like investing
534
00:30:27,500 --> 00:30:30,500
slack or Discord or Zoom or any
of those.
535
00:30:30,700 --> 00:30:35,400
Those players that have made it
big and because there are tons
536
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:38,100
of stories about Investors
missing out on billion-dollar
537
00:30:38,100 --> 00:30:40,700
opportunities right there.
So if you can leverage that,
538
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:44,800
definitely definitely go for it
and stack up your meetings.
539
00:30:45,300 --> 00:30:48,800
If the investor wants to keep
talking for another 30 minutes
540
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:51,700
after your time is over, you
should just cut them short save.
541
00:30:51,700 --> 00:30:54,200
Sorry I have to go prepare for
another meet.
542
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:56,800
I have another meeting with
investor and fix a man's gotta
543
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:58,900
go.
But lovely talking to you we'll
544
00:30:58,900 --> 00:31:00,500
catch up later and discuss, you
know?
545
00:31:00,700 --> 00:31:05,500
The details.
So do that and make them make
546
00:31:05,500 --> 00:31:07,600
them move.
Otherwise investors just love
547
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:09,900
dragging out shit.
That's just what they do.
548
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:14,200
So on this note, go be you want
to say something?
549
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,400
Go and then we'll move on to the
very last question of today's
550
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:19,300
episode.
Yeah, literally.
551
00:31:19,300 --> 00:31:23,700
That is, um, if you talk to them
one at a time, one at a time,
552
00:31:23,900 --> 00:31:26,800
you you have no leverage to get
them to make engine.
553
00:31:27,100 --> 00:31:29,200
Yeah.
When you're talking to a bunch
554
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,900
of them all at once, They'll ask
you where are you in the
555
00:31:31,900 --> 00:31:34,400
fundraising process?
And you can say, oh well, I have
556
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:36,900
10 other meetings set up this
week and they're like, oh shit.
557
00:31:36,900 --> 00:31:41,500
Okay.
And it it creates it creates,
558
00:31:41,500 --> 00:31:43,700
leverage, to get them to make
decisions.
559
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,500
Absolutely, there are a bunch of
different strategies about
560
00:31:47,100 --> 00:31:48,800
doubling down on that.
Fear of missing out.
561
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:52,700
There is a way of slowly
increasing your valuation or the
562
00:31:52,700 --> 00:31:56,800
cap for your convertible notes
and that pushes the investor
563
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:58,700
further.
Even, you know, if they know
564
00:31:58,700 --> 00:32:01,200
that there are ten other
investors willing to talk to And
565
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:03,700
that if they don't invest.
Now, the next time they're going
566
00:32:03,700 --> 00:32:06,400
to talk to you, the valuation of
your company is literally going
567
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,800
to grow within a few days, they
will move.
568
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:14,500
Its so do that research.
It and of course, Shameless plug
569
00:32:14,500 --> 00:32:17,200
in here of our course.
Because that's exactly what I'm
570
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:21,400
talking about in the course of
reaching out to investors one.
571
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:25,500
And one figuring out how to
build that fomo explain those
572
00:32:25,500 --> 00:32:29,400
other strategies and how to
actually locate them from the
573
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:32,700
legal perspective as Well, on
this note, let's move on to the
574
00:32:32,700 --> 00:32:36,000
very last question.
So Kobe would do you want to do?
575
00:32:36,300 --> 00:32:38,600
No, wait, no.
I'm going to have to re-record
576
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,400
that last question.
No, wait, what do you want to
577
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:43,600
do?
All right, on this note, let's
578
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:45,800
move on to the very last
question of today's episode,
579
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:48,800
which is a call to action.
So Kobe, would you want to
580
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:51,400
listen to do as soon as this
episode is over?
581
00:32:53,100 --> 00:32:55,600
So, if you're interested in
fundraising, I would definitely
582
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:57,500
go and sign up for a
Constantine's.
583
00:32:57,500 --> 00:33:01,300
Course, I was going through a
bunch of these episodes, there's
584
00:33:01,300 --> 00:33:04,600
over 300 of them, which is just
an insane amount of knowledge
585
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:08,000
that's been accumulated.
I think that's really, really
586
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:10,000
cool.
I have to give some major props
587
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:16,300
to your content marketing here,
think 300, 300 episodes articles
588
00:33:16,300 --> 00:33:19,900
or anything like that is insane
accomplishment.
589
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:23,100
Um, and yeah, if you're
interested, Growth of marketing.
590
00:33:23,100 --> 00:33:26,200
I have a subset called channels
of growth go sign up.
591
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:29,300
It's join, you get all the
Articles or the most recent
592
00:33:29,300 --> 00:33:32,400
article for free, and it's like
six bucks a month if you want
593
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:34,800
access to all the content.
Yes.
594
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:38,300
And it is great personally,
subscribe to events, and
595
00:33:38,300 --> 00:33:42,000
personally, loving this stuff,
because I've actually discovered
596
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:45,000
quite a few tools for that sub
stack and one of my favorite
597
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,700
Discovery.
So far is a polo amazing tool
598
00:33:47,700 --> 00:33:52,100
11, it's going to imply going to
use it for both my day job at
599
00:33:52,300 --> 00:33:55,600
first base and for the side
project, specifically
600
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:59,700
distribution of the course and
helping other Founders actually
601
00:34:00,700 --> 00:34:04,400
spin out their affiliate
programs that waste so great
602
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:06,500
place.
If you're liking some resources,
603
00:34:06,500 --> 00:34:08,900
if you want some extra push
definitely go for it.
604
00:34:08,900 --> 00:34:11,400
You're going to find some good
good stuff there.
605
00:34:11,699 --> 00:34:14,000
And as always have a good day.
