RTP covered by Cheryl Gurz

Konstantin Dubovitskiy
Product manager at the Clearinghouse for real payments. And in this episode that's exactly what we're going to
talk about rtp. So Cheryl, let's kick it off lightly. Tell us about yourself and about pch, just in a few words.
cheryl
Thanks. Cheryl Gers I'm one of the RTP product managers at the Clearinghouse. I've been here for the last six
years and watched the evolution of we actually rolled out the RTP network, which was the first instant payments
network in the United States and it'll be eight years in two weeks, I think. So we've been at this for a while. It's not
as new as everyone thinks. The Clearinghouse we've been around for over 100 years doing wires, checks and ACH
and then worked with our board of directors and saw a market need for real time payment and made the
investments and brought the network up. It's not a. It's a new network built from the ground up for digital economy.
It wasn't piecing together our ACH and wire and check systems. It's all new technology and it's been running very
successfully for the last almost.
Konstantin Dubovitskiy
Eight years, very much so being its own records early I think. Right. So certainly on the right track. That being said,
you are the product manager of rtp. What does that title mean? What do you actually do within rtp?
cheryl
My role is actually to work with our customers who are the financial institutions in the United states. There's
almost 9,000 of them to work with the financial institutions and their customers to drive adoption and while having
those discussions and helping banks and their customers bring real time payments, instant payments, however
you want to call them into their environment. Also as a product manager, listen to what the market is asking and
work on our product roadmap. So we haven't stayed still. We have again come up eight years ago almost but we
have continuously brought new enhancements and changes to the network as Covid came first and different
product offerings. We're continuously evolving as technology and as the market needs evolve.
Konstantin Dubovitskiy
Perfect answer and very graceful one honestly. So before we jump into the technicalities of RTP, which is one of
the biggest goals of this episode as of the whole podcast, I wanted to ask a question on tch. TCH is a consortium
of a bunch of banks. So why do they want so the consortium banks clearly they want to have more people use rtp,
including other banks. Why was the driving goal just for them to get the processing through their banks? How does
that what's the driving force behind it? Who benefits from this.
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cheryl
Well, the clearinghouse is the private operator of the payment networks in the United States and the public
operator is the Federal Reserve Bank. So you have two operators, the Fed and the private. Now, banks, traditionally,
their core business is providing payments clearing and settlement to each other and to all customers. So the
owner banks of the clearinghouse, there's 24 of them, they have this private network and they want to support their
own business objectives and bring product and services to their customer base. But they also think more broadly
as we are a utility for all banks in the United States, so they all can start bringing more products and services into
their environments. Because payments was traditionally one of the largest, you know, core objectives and goals of
financial institutions. We're only in the financial institution can actually settle money.
cheryl
I mean, we're not going to get into Stablecoin and Bitcoin and everything else as the world is today in the United
States and has been for the last 100. In order to exchange value between. If you bank at one bank and I bank at
another bank, the only way to exchange value is through either the clearinghouse networks or the Federal Reserve
networks. So we're here to facilitate trade. You know, when you look at it more broadly. Broadly, and facilitate
exchange of value between us as consumers and businesses. When we all bank under 50 states and, you know,
thousands of banks in the United States, there has to be a way to settle that money. And that's what we do. And
that's how, that's the reason that we looked as the clearinghouse, the owner banks, we saw this as a business
opportunity.
Konstantin Dubovitskiy
So at the end of the day, TCH is for profit. And then what happens with the revenue is that split between the banks
that own tch or we're actually a dot.
cheryl
Org and we're non, I wouldn't say a non. For profit. We are, we work to recover costs. We're a cost recovery. And if
the costs can't be recovered, then the owner banks need to make a contribution to keep us running.
Konstantin Dubovitskiy
Gotcha.
cheryl
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Okay. Yeah. And that's why our pricing schedule that's out on the public website is that we charge for RTP the
same to any bank. If the bank's doing 10 payments a month or another bank's doing 10 million, the price point is
the same for all of them.
Konstantin Dubovitskiy
That is as rare as it gets in the financial industry, honestly. Good choice, though. Good choice.
cheryl
Well, we want to, we want everyone to have advantage of it. You know, when you go in, we put an innovation in
what the market was Saying what's really different is that in the United States, an instant payment network, we're
late to the game. Asia's had them for years. You know, the UK has had it for 12 years. We are late to the game and
we need to let the market know because there's no mandate. Our government did not mandate that this rail be
required by every financial institution. So we had to do something and pricing was one way to make sure it's even.
We want all our community banks. 90, 95% of the banks on our network are the community and credit unions. We
need them just as much as we need the owner banks.
Konstantin Dubovitskiy
That is a large number. I wonder what percentage of the transactions are coming from that 95%. Are you allowed
to share that?
cheryl
It's a large percent right now. Because traditionally in the banking business, right, Banking is a business, you have
the core cash management banks that bank companies such as yourself that send the payments. So you're going
to have a large majority of our volume coming from the banks that have invested in treasury services, cash
management business lines.
Konstantin Dubovitskiy
Okay, makes sense. And at least you know what, we've covered the basics. Time to go into depth of the RTP and
talk about the technical capability. So settlements clearing and funds availability, all of those are. Is that correct?
That is the whole premise of rtp, which is real time payments, correct?
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cheryl
Yes. Everyone's like oh, every clearing and settlements together, you know, and you and I probably are used to Zell's
a great example. I go and I send my son money and he's like, oh, I got my $50. Yeah, but that was the clearing. The
bank is taking the risk and they're not settling with the counterbank, you know, until one to two days later by one of
the networks. So RTP is the very first network in the United States that's 247 by 365 where clearing and settlement
are done together in a good funds model. And you say so what it takes risk, payment risk out of the process. And
what happens for you and I as customers, we have immediate and it's irrevocable. No one can come and take it
away from us.
cheryl
For some of us in small businesses and big businesses that take credit card or something called chargebacks, you
can get chargebacks for a long time so you thought the funds were good and then all of a sudden someone
charged backs. In the ACH system you have disputes, you have 90 days on many of those things. And RTP, what's
so unique about it in the US marketplace is that irrevocability and it's worth so much value to businesses. Why we
and you with your business continue to reach out to businesses small, medium and large to say why you should be
using this as one of your tools in your toolkit for, for payments.
Konstantin Dubovitskiy
Instant. That's the key word in all of this discussion, honestly. All rounds. That obviously opens the capabilities or
the ability for frusters to actually pool the funds and develop those funds. And RTP is the network with the largest
per transaction limits. They're instant, obviously. So Fed now, I believe is at $100,000 per transaction and RTP is at
10 million per transaction. Correct. You've recently bumped it up.
cheryl
Yeah, the Fed, I think next month's going up to 10 million too. So we'll both be at 10 million.
Konstantin Dubovitskiy
Wow.
cheryl
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The first time, yeah, they decided to follow us again, as expected.
Konstantin Dubovitskiy
I mean, they're falling behind drastically, so it makes sense to copy you guys. We're gonna touch on to the different,
very few of them, but we'll still talk about them and where you should go first.
cheryl
The one thing you brought up about the fraud, and I just want to point out is, you know, faster. You know, it's the
urban legend that I shudder every time I hear it. Faster payments, faster fraud. So, you know, fraud on payments
starts by the senders, right? So, you know, the receivers, the bad guys are what are considered mules, right? They
go networks and they're opening fake accounts and they're taking your money away and everything else. And, and
those are the folks that are on the receive side that you know, are the bad players. But on our network, our controls
are at the sending bank, no different than the controls for wire. You know, many corporations and companies such
as yourself, you have to follow SOC anyways. You got, you know, good, prudent controls, two people, you know, a
preparer and an authorizer.
cheryl
And for real time payments, we keep saying they're instant. They're instant. When your bank submits them to us on
the network, it's 15 seconds round trip. Actually, the majority of payments are actually executed in three and a half
seconds based on our IT metrics. So. But the bank that sends is the one that is saying they did all their, their
reviews and everything up front. That's why it's irrevocable. They are, they are doing their fraud reviews, their AML
reviews, their money reviews, their. They could take hours before they release that payment for your customer
because they have to ensure. They're saying when we're saying it's irrevocable.
cheryl
That means that bank that send it can't pull it back even if they made a mistake because they had responsibilities
to make sure that everything is, you know, it was verified by the sender, it passed the fraud. There's so much with AI
going on today. There's so much more. We are enhancing our fraud capabilities every day. But we as a network are
more focused on the receive side. So we can see if it was a bad player that someone sending it and then we tell,
we let the banks know that account you should take a second look. But you know your customers sending bank
you know who they're sending. You know if these patterns are right because it's really checking account fraud. I'm
an ex banker, I don't see it as payment rail fraud.
cheryl
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Because if the bank is sending it by ACH to a fraud, it's going to be a fraud. If it's sending it by check, if they're
sending it by wire or rtp, it's all going to the same fraud account. It's still fraud. And our fraud, you know, we're a
credit push system which means no one can pull money from you like an ach, you know, no one's pulling anything.
You are authorizing, the sender is authorizing every payment and individually by themselves. So unless it's account
takeover, your bank knows that you authorized it and has.
Konstantin Dubovitskiy
A record account takeover, we're not going touch that. We are quickly going touch the pool side of things. There's a
very frequent misleading question that I have which is can we have RTP for pools? And the answer is always no.
However, there is a system called request for payments which essentially allows pools to. It still has to be
authorized by user through the banking system. So they're still pushing it. But what it looks like is essentially pool.
Question as to you, does TCH have anything to do with RFP or is that purely banking product?
cheryl
No, we provide the infrastructure for rfp. We actually design the product again because it's product development,
product rollback. It's you know, everyone as I mentioned to credit push. So everyone thinks of it as disbursements.
Everyone's spending money and there's value in that. You know, in precision payments only paying you get liquidity
savings. But so many businesses and people want to receive their money. They think receiving the money is the
most important thing. So when you have a network that does not support a transaction where a bank or someone
else can just pull the money out of your account or we had to use the ISO 2022 formats to find a workflow that
would support a pooling the money. And that is what request for payment is. It's using a non financial message.
cheryl
An ISO message is called a pain13 on the network and it allows a company to go to their bank and submit a
request to payment to shareholders. And there has to be, there's rules, there has to be a relationship between me
and the company, many rules, which is there for protection and making sure there's no fraudulent people coming to
ask you to get money. What will happen? Again, it's non financial. You will send it to me, a company will send it to
me, say it's my utility payment, I'll receive it. My bank, my online banking will send me an alert to say my utility
company just asked me to send them $82.50. I can ignore that. I could say no or I can pay it, but when I pay it, I
authorize it.
Konstantin Dubovitskiy
Yeah.
cheryl
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And that's what is perfect. Because I am authorizing it. Every single one I am authorizing saying yes, I know the
utility company. I know this is the amount I want to pay and I'm going to pay it. When I want to pay it, I'm going to
pay it right now. I can pay it two hours later, I can pay it three days later. And when I pay it, what's beautiful for all
you tech folks out there is when I say pay for, my bank sends the payment back through the same secure bank
channel. It's all done in secure bank channels. It will send the money back to the utility company and it has all of
that rich data so that straight through processing an immediate update to my utility bill. So it helps both sides. The
sender gets the money quickly.
cheryl
They get a straight through processing update. They don't have to manually go to a ledger and post it. And I get
money. So think about it. On a credit card experience, I'm sort of went up to my limit. I need another couple
thousand because who knows what I'm doing. I can make that. I can request a request for payment right then and
there. I send it's irrevocable, that credit card company will give me open to pay immediately. So it just helps all of
us in the, in the embedded finance world by having RFPs because there's no disputes. There's you know, ACH
debits and there's tons of ACH returns. Right. You're not going to get a return.
Konstantin Dubovitskiy
Is beautiful. That is unquestionable and a lot of people do genuinely want this capability. However it is very much
limited. So from what I believe is only available through like four major banks in.
cheryl
The U.S. yeah, that's the product development and management side. Right. It's a two sided network. When you
have a two sided network you have to ensure that the banks on both sides develop and join the network for that
product offering. So on the send side we have multiple banks wanting to send for their customers. On the receive
side we're still in a adoption, you know an adoption stage where getting those receive banks to come onto the
network so that the senders have someone. We only have about 25% of DDA accounts that can be reached and so
25%. We've done over 5 million in the last year of those RFPs. So I see it again as innovation. And yes you can't go
to 5,000 banks but you can start getting used to it. It's a new way to pay.
cheryl
So start with a couple of those banks. Get used to your customer experience. How you explain it, what are you
doing? You know the big everybody wants a big bang which we would love but we don't have the big bang. But
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there doesn't mean that you can't start using the functionality. Roll it out to cardholders that or customers
brokerages are on there today. We have some real interesting use cases that are on there today for account to
account and start. So it is there. It's there in a beginning of innovation cycle expected and we see it growing every
month.
Konstantin Dubovitskiy
I do believe in RFP which has far too many limitations. We're not going touch on that either but where do you find
those lists? So for people who are listening to this right now and they're like okay, I do want to be able to start
rolling this out. So when it grows I'm already going to be ahead of my competition. A bunch of benefits, right?
Where can they start?
cheryl
The they should. There's two places to start, right? The all the banks that are attached, many of them have product
offerings and they're out there trying to get the attention of their customers. Their sales forces are out there and
their sales forces are trying to talk to their small business, their medium business, their large business and they're
talking to about it. But I think what's really exciting is from a distribution channel is companies such as yours which
are platform providers. You know many people in the industry today use fintechs which are platform providers and
you have enabled so you've brought in the reach. So go to companies as such as Checkbook that will start
providing these services. You as Checkbook. And every platform has to go through a bank so it will eventually
come onto a bank.
cheryl
We don't have direct send like ACH does but the platform providers such as Checkbook are working with their bank
so they can distribute it further. So there's two places for those that are interested and also go to our website and
read all about it so that if your cash management person at your bank is clueless, you can help them find the right
people in their bank to start talking to.
Konstantin Dubovitskiy
And I'll certainly follow up with Cheryl on the actual resources to check out. One of them will be about rfp, where to
start. And yeah, the answer is go through platforms like Checkbook. Obviously I'm going to have to do a shameless
plug here. Speaking of shameless plugs, it is time to mention that we are all going to be at AFP this coming
Monday. So the coming Monday being the 27th and also Tuesday 28th and we'll be doing demos and the best way
to do demo is to send money. So if you are going to AFP and you want $3.84, I love that semi random number. It
has to do something with coffee. So if you want that deposit to your account through rtp, come to the booth. I
forgot the booth number. Cheryl, what is the booth?
cheryl
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619. 619 or 18?
Konstantin Dubovitskiy
Yeah, 619, something like that.
cheryl
You always figure it out right next door. You can't miss us.
Konstantin Dubovitskiy
Correct? Correct. You'll see Checkbook hoodies, you'll see tch people, you'll see us. Anyways, stop by, get your free
money. And we are moving on to the next question which is about that money.
cheryl
Because I'm going to plug it even further. You know we talk about instant all the time. And why are we there with
Checkbook? Because Checkbook has a user interface that will show you how quickly it does work. Because I can
talk about instant all day. In 15 seconds you're going to actually see it move into your account that quickly. And
that's better. Pictures and experiences are better than words.
Konstantin Dubovitskiy
Correct. Which is last time, which is why we gave away. Last time at AFP was about two thousand and a half
thousand. Two and a half thousand dollars. Not just through rtp, it was a bunch of rails that we offered but still
substantial amount of money that were just thrown around. So come and join. Free money. So back to the
question which is settlements. Sorry, not Settlement, but clearing. And what the users see when we're running
those demos, frequently what they see when they deposit money to their account through RTP is the amount, the
transaction, where it's coming from and then the pending. And then they ask the question of why is it pending? I
thought it's instant. Let's address that.
cheryl
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Banking software in the United States is still much of it on batch legacy software. So what you're seeing when that
descriptive comes to your account is a channel and it's giving you some information to tell you in seconds who
that money came to. And many banks, shocking are not real time posting systems. So they post at the end of the
day. So when you're showed pending, it means that the bank has put it in your available balance, but the final
transaction will be posted in the evening. And it's really a banking term. Any of you that use your debit cards, you
see the same thing, you go to your debit cards, you're going to see that you went and pulled or your ATM you pulled
$50. Your ATM you're going to look and it shows $50 and you have the 50 in your hand.
cheryl
But on your bank channel descriptive, it's going to say pending because they have given you the money but they
haven't gone through an end of day cycle. So what you really need to look for is in your available balance. Because
what's in your available balance you can go immediately. So we have a lot of gig economy workers using this to
pull down and they get it immediately and they go use their debit card to fill their tanks up with gas. So what the
immediate and the instant is in your bank is not don't look at the pending.
cheryl
You will be guaranteed that money is in your available balance and you can immediately go to a branch, take the
money out, use your debit card, go to an ATM card, take out an ATM and that money is available to you and it's
never going to be pulled back.
Konstantin Dubovitskiy
The answer is some banks are just slow on posting transactions. That is delightful. Good to know. And partially I'm
just preparing for AFP and answering a bunch of those questions.
cheryl
Well, everyone's asking more and more. Yeah, pending. It's funny because I start looking at my accounts because I
never noticed how many of them say pending until the end of the cycle review. And it's, I've been in this industry for
a long time and so many banks, you know, still are in that legacy batch world. Even though they're giving you the
money and everything the Information, real time. They still have to go to an end of day cycle for full posting. But
the money is there and that's all that matters.
Konstantin Dubovitskiy
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That's what matters. Exactly. Some confusion. That's fine, that's fine. We can deal with some confusion. So let's
talk about the cost now. Right, you mentioned that they're the same for everyone. What are the costs?
cheryl
Well again, we are the network operator and only banks can be part of the network. And every bank has the same
cost structure that's in there. There's a per item cost for each transaction, which for a credit transfer has been
since we started, four and a half cents. And that four and a half cents is what the banks are charged, what the
banks charge their customers.
Konstantin Dubovitskiy
It's a different story.
cheryl
We, we are completely ignorant and we don't solicit that we have to service all banks. We're Switzerland. So we
don't keep track. There's some, yeah, there's some reasons we don't keep track. So you will have different
experiences. What, what we, you know, your bankers will give you what you need to make informed decisions
between this and other payment types. But remember that this is also a value. There's no day two. So everyone will
look at transaction costs of the immediate transaction of clearing and settlement. And when you look at our
payment network in an instant pay, there's no day two. You have no returns which you're seeing on achievement,
you're getting no chargebacks. So you have to look at not just the per unit cost, you know, good old activity based
accounting.
cheryl
You got to look at the end to end cost of what it is for you to represent for and for returns and for disputes and
charges.
Konstantin Dubovitskiy
The list goes on and on.
cheryl
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You know, immediately if that account number was accepted, I think the big thing, and I say it's irrevocable. But the
other thing is there's an immediate confirmation that the money's in your account. You have that with no other
payment system. It's like the FedEx confirmation of the banking network.
Konstantin Dubovitskiy
Since you've mentioned FedEx, triggered my brain with Fed. Let's talk about the difference between Fed now and
rtp. From my perspective, there's virtually no difference. The pricing is the same. It's just the operators are in one
situation it's RTP and the other, sorry, not RTP but tch. Obviously in the other situation it's the Federal Reserve. Is
that it?
cheryl
Well, it's also experience, right. They just hit their second year. We've hit our eighth. As I said as a product manager,
we've had roadmap enhancements. So experience really matters. Like, you know, as the market changes, what do
you need to do? They have, you know, they have added, I think they're up to 1500 banks. They have a little more, but
our reach is broader. So we have a much broader reach. They breach about 30% of the DDA accounts. The United
States, we reached almost 73%. Many banks are on both.
Konstantin Dubovitskiy
And you got to interruption here. Did you mention, do you say that you are currently reaching 73%?
cheryl
I thought it's 83, 73% of the DDA accounts we reach. But I'll give you an example. There's again 9,000 financial
institutions in the United States. So our top dispersers that are fueling and they were early adopters. We have
testimonials from them where they tell us they're reaching over 90% of the customers that they want to, that they
use. Because again, this is a national figure. If you look in the east coast and the west coast, you know, people
usually buy payments locally and not everyone's, you know, we have pockets of areas that it's not covered because
the long tail of many of these banks. So we have all the major banks on the network that you know, are up to 73%.
We could reach up to 99% because we're connected through all technology providers.
cheryl
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The technology providers were actually able to enable all of their banks. We would be up there. So they have
connectivity. They just. The banks just haven't made the decision to adopt. I think some out there still think that it's
a fad and it's going to go away. No, it's table stakes, people. It's no longer a should I do it's when. And we're seeing
much more coming in the Fed also since we have many and we've expanded, experienced and had the early
adopters on our network. Volume levels are very different. And it's the volume levels that give you the experience,
right? The uptime, the continuous operations. And when we say 24 7, it's 24 7. I just looked at something today,
over 43% of the money on the network is after traditional banking hours. So you know what this does?
cheryl
It puts in all of your, all of the businesses and even you and I, we don't have to worry about banker hours anymore.
Businesses don't have to. You don't even have to worry about what's the deadline to get my ACH file in. I could do it
at 9 o' clock at night if I come home and I want to send a payment to you. And we have payments throughout the
whole 24 hour cycle. And being up that whole time and having 100% availability of our network, you know, we
require the banks to be up 99.5. The network is up 100. So that is a lot of the differences in the experiences. We
did 39, I just saw a Fed published numbers, we did 114 million over the last three months. They did 2.3 million, 2.5
million. That's 2 of our average day.
cheryl
So experience, especially when you're pumping scale through a network with all of this data, everything that's the
difference from us. We have the experience and we continue to gain it. As you get to those new levels of payments
every single month, I'm assuming.
Konstantin Dubovitskiy
The support levels are also quite different. You mentioned something which is, you know the requirements for the
banks to be up 99.5%. Can you elaborate on that being up? What does that mean?
cheryl
Yes, the banks that are part of our network are required to post within 5 seconds to your accounts. That is one of
their rules. And to be a member they have to 24, 7, 365 be up and available to post. So you know, I mentioned
earlier many of the banks are still in a batch environment and they have to cleanse and do updates at the end of
the night.
cheryl
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So we put a SLA for all connections to our network of 99.5% and that means that we give them seven hours on a
Sunday between, you know, well, we give them our maintenance window between I think it's midnight and five on
Sundays and they're allowed to take seven of those hours a month to do any because there's a lot of still legacy
software out there where the DDA has to go and your technician cash and clean stuff up and they have upgrades
that they have to manage. Many banks are on an active environment. So you would never know. But there's still
some banks that need to go down that don't make the 99 our average. We have many banks at 100% even though
we say it's 99.5 because they want to be up 100%. So we keep the 99.5 as our standard.
cheryl
We're going to continue to increase that as we grow and as the long tail and the technology partners recognize
that expectations are you as a platform provider giving services to your customers, you're notified when one of
those connections you know are down so you know when they're down, so you know not to send it and can give a
message to your customer and then as soon as they come back up, you're able to send the payments.
Konstantin Dubovitskiy
Okay, quick follow up on this. You've mentioned that the banks are required or the banks that are on your network
are required to post transaction within five seconds. Right. But as you said, we had the discussion about some
banks being in batching system and they're not posting the transaction until the end of the day.
cheryl
They have to put it in the available balance. Everyone putting it in the available. They don't. That's the little nuance.
They have to do it immediately. They don't have to put it into the full posting, but the requirements and the rules
require that it goes into the available balance so that I'm able to go and take my money out within seconds.
Konstantin Dubovitskiy
Perfect.
cheryl
All right.
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Konstantin Dubovitskiy
That is what it means. All right, final question. Final question being if we're pretending that you can now talk to all
of the world population, you can whisper something right into their brain that they will actually understand. What
would that thing be preferably about finances? It can be Join RTP network.
cheryl
Yeah, it's more about you shouldn't have to think how you pay.
Konstantin Dubovitskiy
Okay, that's a good one.
cheryl
Your bank and your provider does that for you. You don't have to know how RTP is different than FedNow or how
ACH is different. You need to just want to make a payment and tell your provider when you want that payment
made and you have to have the money to give them. So don't get all caught up in our acronyms and our shorthand
and our posting and availability. You just realize that you're going to go to your providers, be it your banks or your
platform providers such as Checkbook and they're there to do all behind the curtains for you.
Konstantin Dubovitskiy
You don't need to know how the payment is made is a really cool phrase that I'm writing down.
cheryl
You don't back there. Right? Someone's doing it for you. When's the best way? When do you do this?
Konstantin Dubovitskiy
It's going to be in the description of the episode people, along with a bunch of other stuff. Which brings me to my
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wrap up and call to action which is a if you're going to afp, definitely visit the booth, get your free money for your
whole team. Again, we don't really care. We just want you to try the experience, feel how cool it is and then join our
tp. Sign up for Checkbook accounts start transacting instantly. Right, Come on. Stop with the ach. Number two. We
are going to post a bunch of stuff in the description of this episode.
Konstantin Dubovitskiy
So if you have not been paying full attention, there's gonna be summary, there's gonna be some key talking points,
some key information that Cheryl shared, and obviously the resources that Cheryl mentioned specifically on rfp,
because I think this subject is going to be interesting to a lot of people, myself included. And that's it. That's the
wrap. We are. Yeah. No, I couldn't come up with anything on the fly, so that's. That's the wrap, people.
cheryl
Thank you so much for inviting me on.
Konstantin Dubovitskiy
All righty.
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